Do you skip the "a" sound when "ral" at

nick   Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:27 am GMT
Like natural? do you pronunce it like "rl" at the end of the word?
Jim   Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:55 am GMT
Yes, it's only natural. <al> at the end of words often corresponds to a syllabic /l/.
Travis   Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:00 am GMT
Yep. For example, for me the name "Carl" is [k_ha:r\M\] (note that [M\], with some alveolar or palatal coarticulation in some positions, is how I generally realize what is conventionally /l/).
nick   Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:44 pm GMT
so natural should be [n@ ch^ rl] ro [n@ ch^r l]?
Travis   Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:47 pm GMT
For me, in X-SAMPA, "natural" is ["n{.tS@`:.M\=].
Jim   Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:11 am GMT
& me /"n{.trl=/ = ["n{.tSrl=] two syllables.
Lazar   Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:42 am GMT
Travis, is your /l/ lateral? My /l/ is usually realized as [L\], a velar lateral approximant.
Travis   Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:51 am GMT
>>Travis, is your /l/ lateral? My /l/ is usually realized as [L\], a velar lateral approximant.<<

That's the thing; it does not seem to actually involve any contact with the top of the mouth, whether it would involve frication or not. Rather, it seems to be a plain approximant in the way that [j] is, except that it usually has some sort of coarticulation and also is less vocalic than [j] or [w]. If it is an actual lateral, it is probably a voiced velar lateral fricative with varying degrees of alveolar or palatal coarticulation; one way or another, it seems like it is a non-lateral approximant, but an approximant that is rather close to being a weakly lateral fricative. One way or another, it is rather hard for me to classify; it is not [5] (having no alveolar contact), it is not [L\] (having no clear velar contact beyond possibly a weak degree of frication at times), it is not [w] (having no labial component)...
Travis   Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:15 am GMT
Anyways, it seems to be somewhere between [M\], [L\], and [G], with it being more (weak) fricative-like when stressed and more semivowel-like when unstressed, for lack of any better description...