I'll vs All

Guest   Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:04 pm GMT
Do you pronounce "I'll" and "all" the same?
Uriel   Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:10 pm GMT
No.
Mike   Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:14 pm GMT
I'm from Georgia and I pronounce "I'll" and "all" exactly the same way.
Mike   Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:20 pm GMT
"our" and "are" are also homonyms for me.
Travis   Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:15 pm GMT
I myself pronounce the two differently, as:

"I'll" : [a:L] (formally [a:IL])
"all" : [O:L]

As for "our" and "are", they are both normally pronounced as [a:r\`] here, but "our" has the additional formal pronunciation ["a:U@`] here as well.
Lazar   Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:06 pm GMT
I pronounce "I'll" like the name "Al".

For me:

"I'll" [{l]
"all" [Ql]

It's interesting that Travis's "I'll", in cross-dialectal phonemes, is /Al/, whereas mine is /{l/.
Mike   Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:54 pm GMT
<<It's interesting that Travis's "I'll", in cross-dialectal phonemes, is /Al/, whereas mine is /{l/.>>

Isn't my "I'll" the same way? I'm assuming that /A/ = "ah".
Mike   Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:04 pm GMT
<<I pronounce "I'll" like the name "Al".>>

That's interesting, because no one around here says it like that.
Lazar   Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:12 pm GMT
<<Isn't my "I'll" the same way? I'm assuming that /A/ = "ah".>>

Yes, /A/ is the "ah" phoneme. So I assume that you pronounce both "I'll" and "all" as [Al]. That's interesting, because it seems to indicate that you have at least a partial cot-caught merger. I'm just curious, do the following word pairs rhyme for you?

cot-caught
don-dawn
all-doll
Mike   Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:29 pm GMT
<<That's interesting, because it seems to indicate that you have at least a partial cot-caught merger. I'm just curious, do the following word pairs rhyme for you?

cot-caught
don-dawn
all-doll>>

Yep, all rhyme perfectly for me.

By the way, what about "while"? I pronounce that as [wAl] in certain positions, but not all positions. For example:

I left while [wAl] they were still there.

While [wAl] we're at it.

But:

I will leave in a little while [waI.@l].
Lazar   Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:36 pm GMT
<<By the way, what about "while"? I pronounce that as [wAl] in certain positions, but not all positions. For example:

I left while [wAl] they were still there.

While [wAl] we're at it.

But:

I will leave in a little while [waI.@l].>>

Yes, I follow a similar pattern with "while" (although as with "I'll", I use [{], rather than, [A], for the reduced form).

When "while" is a conjunction (as in, "While we're at it"), I pronounce it as [w{l], but when it's a noun (as in, "I will leave in a little while"), I pronounce it as ["waI@l].
Travis   Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:33 am GMT
In informal speech, I myself generally pronounce "while" as [wa:L]. At least in my dialect, there is a underlying rule of /aI/ -> [a] (before vowel length generation) before /L/ and /w/, including across word boundaries. Note though that it spreads from the most common to the least common words with decreasing formality, with the only form in which it occurs in relatively consistently in semi-formal speech being "I'll", while in my very informal speech [aI] and [a:I] are not normally found before /L/ or /w/, even across word boundaries.

As for my /a/, yes, it does correspond to crossdialectal /A/, as does my /L/ with crossdialectal /l/. One note is that I may perceive a slightly high or rounded [A] as /O/, especially before crossdialectal /l/, which is part of why I do not normally notice GAE [a:5] as being much different from my [O:L] for "all" (except that in recordings of myself, my [L] often comes off as awfully close to [M\]).
runCDfirst   Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:47 am GMT
Hey, it's been a long time since I came in here guys.

Anyway, Yes I hear and say "I'll" and "all" in the same way.
There's also "for" and "fur", I hear and say them in the same way as well.
And finally, there's "my" and "ma" ,I say "my" but I know this guy and he says it like "ma fault" but he's black though so I don't know if that's considered "Standard American English" or not. Any native will comment on that please?

Thanx, glad to comeback here again.
runCDfirst.
Uriel   Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:08 pm GMT
"Ma" for "my" is common in quite a few dialects. I don't do it myself, though.
Lazar   Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:32 am GMT
One reduced form that isn't present in my dialect is [s@] for "so", as in:

"It's not so bad."
[Its "nAt s@ "b{d]

In my own dialect, the above sentence would be:

[Its "nQt %soU "b{d]