Fascinating. If some pronounce cot and caught similarly, how do they pronounce "court"? I realise the r would be rolled by rhotic speakers, but would the vowel be the same for all?
The Pronunciation of "Blog" in American English
<<Fascinating. If some pronounce cot and caught similarly, how do they pronounce "court"? I realise the r would be rolled by rhotic speakers, but would the vowel be the same for all?>>
No, typically the vowel in "court" is very different. I'm part of the 40% of Americans who pronounce "cot-caught" identically (I'm from California) and for both of those words I have the same vowel [A] as in "father." However, for "court" I have [O], plus the 'r', of course. But, if we're talking about vowels before 'r', my "cot-caught" share the same vowel with "cart," but of course since I'm rhotic "cot-caught" sound different from "cart." My pronunciations for the following words are:
"cot"/"caught" [k_hAt]
"cart" [k_hAr\t]
"court" [k_hOr\t]
It's worth noting that different people who merge "cot-caught" across North America may have merged them to other vowels such as [O] or [Q], but my [A] is a pretty common one (actually, to be technical, mine may approach [O] at times as well but I normally just transcribe it [A]).
No, typically the vowel in "court" is very different. I'm part of the 40% of Americans who pronounce "cot-caught" identically (I'm from California) and for both of those words I have the same vowel [A] as in "father." However, for "court" I have [O], plus the 'r', of course. But, if we're talking about vowels before 'r', my "cot-caught" share the same vowel with "cart," but of course since I'm rhotic "cot-caught" sound different from "cart." My pronunciations for the following words are:
"cot"/"caught" [k_hAt]
"cart" [k_hAr\t]
"court" [k_hOr\t]
It's worth noting that different people who merge "cot-caught" across North America may have merged them to other vowels such as [O] or [Q], but my [A] is a pretty common one (actually, to be technical, mine may approach [O] at times as well but I normally just transcribe it [A]).
Something else to mention--with the "cot-caught" merger comes the possibility for speakers to make spelling errors for homophones between pairs typically spelled with "o" and "au/aw." As a "cot-caught" merged person myself, it seemed normal to me that as a kid I had to memorize the spelling differences between pairs like "Don/Dawn" or "stalk/stock" (and remember which meaning went with which) because I pronounce them the same. It's much like an RP speaker needing to memorize the spelling difference between "court/caught" as a child, which is a pair I never would confuse since I pronounce them very differently.
Anyway, even the best of spellers mess up sometimes, and their particular dialect's pronunciations may shine thru when they make spelling errors reflecting how they actually speak. Here's a site which has documented written errors directly associated with "cot-caught" merged people:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/category/english/cotcaught-merger/
Anyway, even the best of spellers mess up sometimes, and their particular dialect's pronunciations may shine thru when they make spelling errors reflecting how they actually speak. Here's a site which has documented written errors directly associated with "cot-caught" merged people:
http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/category/english/cotcaught-merger/
I don't know, Kirk; don't people with heavy east coast accents (which are probably not c-c merged) tend to introduce a weird W-sound into words like "court"? Almost like "cwoort", with a more U-like O?
<<I don't know, Kirk; don't people with heavy east coast accents (which are probably not c-c merged) tend to introduce a weird W-sound into words like "court"? Almost like "cwoort", with a more U-like O?>>
In a very strong New York accent, /O/ can be realized as a diphthong like [U@].
In a very strong New York accent, /O/ can be realized as a diphthong like [U@].
<<I don't know, Kirk; don't people with heavy east coast accents (which are probably not c-c merged) tend to introduce a weird W-sound into words like "court"? Almost like "cwoort", with a more U-like O?>>
Yup. As Lazar said, that can sometimes be realized as a diphthong somewhat like [U@]. You're right that they're not "c-c" merged. "C-c" nonmergers may have any of several different vowels for their "caught," and it depends on the area, of course. The one you describe is somewhat extreme but does pertain to some speakers in the NYC area.
Yup. As Lazar said, that can sometimes be realized as a diphthong somewhat like [U@]. You're right that they're not "c-c" merged. "C-c" nonmergers may have any of several different vowels for their "caught," and it depends on the area, of course. The one you describe is somewhat extreme but does pertain to some speakers in the NYC area.
@ Kirk
Hey,
Could you record a short tape where you're pronouncing the following words:
caught, dog, block and call.
I'm really interested in listening to your tape, yeah, if it's OK for you, and if it doesn't bother you!?
I wanna hear that merged californian sound - A -. I listened to different tapes, and i just got people who pronounced COHHHTTT, DOOOHG, BLAHHHK (this one is common in the US, I guess) and COHHHL
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Hey,
Could you record a short tape where you're pronouncing the following words:
caught, dog, block and call.
I'm really interested in listening to your tape, yeah, if it's OK for you, and if it doesn't bother you!?
I wanna hear that merged californian sound - A -. I listened to different tapes, and i just got people who pronounced COHHHTTT, DOOOHG, BLAHHHK (this one is common in the US, I guess) and COHHHL
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Ain't just Californians -- that's how I say them, too. Of course, except for Kirk's Valleygirl Lite features and my use of "anymore", apparently linguistically, he and I were separated at birth...
<<@ Kirk
Hey,
Could you record a short tape where you're pronouncing the following words:
caught, dog, block and call.
I'm really interested in listening to your tape, yeah, if it's OK for you, and if it doesn't bother you!?
I wanna hear that merged californian sound - A -. I listened to different tapes, and i just got people who pronounced COHHHTTT, DOOOHG, BLAHHHK (this one is common in the US, I guess) and COHHHL
Thanks in advance,
Mike>>
Sure, no problem. I did a short recording of how I pronounce those words. Here is the link:
http://media.putfile.com/Caughtdog
This is what I say in the short audio file:
"caught
dog
block
call
I caught the escaped dog from down the block so I called his owner."
<<Ain't just Californians -- that's how I say them, too. Of course, except for Kirk's Valleygirl Lite features and my use of "anymore", apparently linguistically, he and I were separated at birth...>>
;) There may be some other as-of-yet undiscovered features we differ on but you're right we have most of the same mergers and other things we've talked about.
Hey,
Could you record a short tape where you're pronouncing the following words:
caught, dog, block and call.
I'm really interested in listening to your tape, yeah, if it's OK for you, and if it doesn't bother you!?
I wanna hear that merged californian sound - A -. I listened to different tapes, and i just got people who pronounced COHHHTTT, DOOOHG, BLAHHHK (this one is common in the US, I guess) and COHHHL
Thanks in advance,
Mike>>
Sure, no problem. I did a short recording of how I pronounce those words. Here is the link:
http://media.putfile.com/Caughtdog
This is what I say in the short audio file:
"caught
dog
block
call
I caught the escaped dog from down the block so I called his owner."
<<Ain't just Californians -- that's how I say them, too. Of course, except for Kirk's Valleygirl Lite features and my use of "anymore", apparently linguistically, he and I were separated at birth...>>
;) There may be some other as-of-yet undiscovered features we differ on but you're right we have most of the same mergers and other things we've talked about.
That's interesting. Other than the pronunciation of 'owner', Kirk's little recording sounds just like my accent, which is very interesting to me. To me, his 'owner' sounded like it started with a short e/oo diphthong...as compared to oh-ner.
It's that latent Valspeak, I'm tellin' ya! Yeah, I don't do that "ewner" thing either.
<<That's interesting. Other than the pronunciation of 'owner', Kirk's little recording sounds just like my accent, which is very interesting to me. To me, his 'owner' sounded like it started with a short e/oo diphthong...as compared to oh-ner.>>
Really? That's interesting. It'd be cool to hear you do a recording, if you can (do you have a microphone?). That's funny you mention my "o" as earlier today on langcafe we were discussing our accents with audio recordings and one of the things someone pointed out that was different between my accent and that of someone from Chicago was the "o." If you're interested in the thread, here's the page where that was mentioned (it's towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.langcafe.net/viewtopic.php?t=260&postorder=asc&start=75
Really? That's interesting. It'd be cool to hear you do a recording, if you can (do you have a microphone?). That's funny you mention my "o" as earlier today on langcafe we were discussing our accents with audio recordings and one of the things someone pointed out that was different between my accent and that of someone from Chicago was the "o." If you're interested in the thread, here's the page where that was mentioned (it's towards the bottom of the page):
http://www.langcafe.net/viewtopic.php?t=260&postorder=asc&start=75
In a really narrow transcription, my /o/ phoneme would be [7U] or [7_oU]. The onset is unrounded, being distinguished from RP [@U] mainly by backness. (In semi-narrow transcription of my speech, I write this diphthong as [oU].)
<<It's that latent Valspeak, I'm tellin' ya! Yeah, I don't do that "ewner" thing either.>>
That's funny as the glide there doesn't sound that extreme to me, but of course maybe I'm just used to how it sounds. To me it doesn't sound like there's as much of a glide as much as just that my /o/ is more fronted than some other American dialects have it.
That's funny as the glide there doesn't sound that extreme to me, but of course maybe I'm just used to how it sounds. To me it doesn't sound like there's as much of a glide as much as just that my /o/ is more fronted than some other American dialects have it.