Pronunciation of tomato

Kirk   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:05 am GMT
<<And probably just about every European language.>>

No, actually many European languages do not have aspirated stops, but (most) Germanic languages do.
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:11 am GMT
Is there a widely spoken European language that doesn't?
Travis   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:17 am GMT
A good, well-known set of examples of European languages without aspirated stops at all would be the Romance languages.

As for Germanic languages, the only Germanic languages that I know of which lack aspirated stops are Dutch and presumably the other Low Franconian languages, Afrikaans and West Flemish. However, aspiration is used quite differently in Icelandic and Faroese from its classical allophonic usage in most other Germanic languages; for instance, Faroese will preaspirate "geminate" fortis stops but not aspirate word-initial non-geminate fortis stops.
Lazar   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:17 am GMT
<<Is there a widely spoken European language that doesn't?>>

Spanish, French, and Italian come to mind.
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:43 am GMT
Then I don't get it. I can post an audio sample of a French word containing [t_h].
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:49 am GMT
Need a host...
Lazar   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:51 am GMT
<<Then I don't get it. I can post an audio sample of a French word containing [t_h].>>

I don't get what you're saying. I've never read or heard of aspirated stops existing in French.
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:54 am GMT
Here it is: "toute". You can hear the second t strongly aspirated; the first one only mildly.

http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=e9283b351541c5e17d0a5c0c
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:08 am GMT
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:41 am GMT
Here's another example but in a passage which is more realistic.

Note the aspirated t in "fait":

"En fait, Madame D..."
http://www.geocities.com/marcoecrea/enfait2.mp3
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:37 am GMT
Kirk, Lazar, Travis:

Do you guys at least acknowledge the aspirated stops in the above recordings or am I missing something?
Mike   Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:05 am GMT
Russian does not have aspirated stops./
Uriel   Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:24 pm GMT
Spanish T's aren't aspirated. They aren't as diluted as the American alveolar flap, but they have a much duller sound than an aspirated T. And they ARE used at the beginning of words, like "tortilla" "tortuga" "todo" etc. It's a distinctive sound.
Lazar   Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:48 pm GMT
<<Do you guys at least acknowledge the aspirated stops in the above recordings or am I missing something?>>

Those did sound aspirated. But nonetheless, I've never read anything about regular aspiration being part of French phonology. It could be that there's a tendency to aspirate a final /t/ if you're emphasizing a word. We'll have to ask Greg.

As for European languages without aspiration, I'm pretty sure there's no aspiration in Spanish or Italian.
Guest   Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:49 pm GMT
In French, it's common to hear aspiration with "u" as in "tu", "salut", "bu".