Past perfect needed?

Is this grammatically correct?

"The pub closed before I got there."

"Before I got there, the pub closed."

Does it have to include the past perfect?

Not up on the names of my tenses, but both of those sentences sound correct. You can also say "The pub had closed before I got there". But you might more commonly hear "The pub had closed by the time I got there." Is that what you mean by past perfect?

I'm not sure why but for me "The pub had been closed before I got there" sounds more correct.

"The pub closed, before I got there"

the latter

"Before I got there, the pub closed"

says the same thing but assumes a different time-place setting. To me when you say Before I got there, the pub closed, you are essentially saying that the pub has closed before you even left to go there, where as the other way around it seems to me that you were in route to the pub, but it closed before you arrived.

Using a past perfect clarifies the exact time-location that the event occurs.

The pub had closed before I got there.

with this sentence, we learn that the pub closed before you arrived. And, you were in route to the pub at the time. It is both, more complete and event specific.

<"The pub had closed by the time I got there." Is that what you mean by past perfect? >

Yes. The past perfect is had + past participle.

Thanks for the reply.

<Guest Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:09 am GMT >

You need to be more sparing with your commas in that post.

"The pub closed, before I got there"

It is both, more complete and event specific.