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An apology to Fab
After your most recent posts, I hesitate in re-writing this apology, but I do so again, only because I am a man of my word.
I am sorry for insisting in the beginning that the French were a Celtic/Germanic people. In that I was wrong. If such a way of thought was applied to the Spanish, then they too would be a Mediterranean/Visigothic people, or the Italians would be a Mediterranean/Ostrogothic people. I have since learned that this is not true. For the most part, the "traditional" French ethnic group is mixed with a multitude of peoples, but for the most part, is a mix of Celtic/Latin peoples. In addition to this majority population, there is a significant number of minority groups, ranging from Vietnamese to Algerians, to sub-Saharan Africans, so that France is a truly multi-cultural country, much like the U.S., and is most definitely not ethnically homogenous like Japan.
A lot of our discrepancies over French culture arise from the fact that I tend to view France, at least within the scope of our "Latin culture debate", in historical terms. As a native resident of France, Fab sees things as they are in the 21st century, while for the purpose of this discussion, I tend to refer to France in the historical sense.
Of course, the same thing can be applied to Fab's view of America as being an "Anglo-Saxon" culture.
And I would like Fab to know that there are a lot of things that bother me about the French. However, I also deeply admire their culture in many ways, and I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. I have taken measures to understand the "French mentality", so that rather than falling into a cultural collision with them over internet debates, I can understand their view point, and how that shapes their opinion.
Brennus, you took your screename from a Celtic person, so perhaps you can answer my question about Celtic Languages in the that thread.
LAA : « Of course, the same thing can be applied to Fab's view of America as being an "Anglo-Saxon" culture. »
Non, absolument pas. Le terme Fr <anglo-saxon> a essentiellement une signification linguistico-culturelle. La référence ethnique est cantonnée au moyen-âge (donc rien à voir avec les États-Unis). Fab a tout à fait raison de préciser que la culture dominante aux EU est de type anglo-saxon.
I don't want to get in a long debate with you Greg, but as an American, I can tell you that there is an incredible difference between our culture, and that of England's. America is such a vast country, with huge regional differences in culture, cuisine, people, and even in some cases, language.
America is a nation of immigrants, and the amount of Anglo-Saxon peoples was easily surpassed by other immigrant groups early since the 19th century. And all of these people have brought their own unique cultural influences, which have blended to form the American culture.
England is much more similar to France or Germany than it is to the U.S. in a lot of ways.
At one time, America was a protestant nation through and through, and now, after centuries of massive waves of Irish, Polish, German, Italian, and Latin American immigrants, America has a very large Catholic population.
The southwest is especially not Anglo-Saxon, or related to England in culture, due to an overwhelming Mexican/Hispanic influence which predates English speaking, American settlement.
America can be correctly referred to as an "Anglo-Saxon" country, because we speak English, and originally, had a protestant, Anglo-Saxon based culture, which is why I don't object to you or Fab calling America an Anglo-Saxon culture. On the same token, you can say that France is a "Gallic" country. But much has changed in America since the days of the Thirteen colonies.
LAA,
>America is a nation of immigrants, and the amount of Anglo-Saxon peoples was easily surpassed by other immigrant groups early since the 19th century.
Yes, but not the Anglo-Saxon way of thinking.
>The southwest is especially not Anglo-Saxon, or related to England in culture, due to an overwhelming Mexican/Hispanic influence which predates English speaking, American settlement.
There is still the Anglo-Saxon way of thinking which rules there.
By the way, "predates" is a beautiful word in the mouth of a citizen from the United States, which predates the word "America" to refer to his country. It would be nicer if you write USA or US, do we have a deal?
Predating English speaking settlement sounds quite out of place, for someone whose country's History clearly predated every single settlement of population that existed by the time Europeans came.
Just reflect a little bit about it. Interesting, huh? ;.)
America just can't be compared to any other country in the world, accept it and move on people ...
What is this "Anglo-Saxon way of thinking"?
Steve,
The post above from "Guest" is mine.
I meant no negative thing with "way of thinking". I meant the Anglo-Saxon culture, which is a complex think to describe in few words.
No worries. I was just intrigued as to what it's perceived to be.
Non, absolument pas. Le terme Fr <anglo-saxon> a essentiellement une signification linguistico-culturelle. La référence ethnique est cantonnée au moyen-âge (donc rien à voir avec les États-Unis). Fab a tout à fait raison de préciser que la culture dominante aux EU est de type anglo-saxon.
Absolutament de acuerdo, en Español es exactamente el mismo uso de la definición Anglo-Sajón.
I don't want to get in a long debate with you Greg, but as an American, I can tell you that there is an incredible difference between our culture, and that of England's. America is such a vast country, with huge regional differences in culture, cuisine, people, and even in some cases, language.
¿Y entonces por qué no llevan ese razonamiento a la práctica? ¿O se trata de decir una cosa y hacer otra totalmente distinta? En Estados Unidos consideran a todos los Latino Americanos la misma cosa, aun cuando hay diferencias importantes entre un Mexicano, un Venezolano, un Brasileño o un Argentino Aún dentro de un mismo país hay diferencias importantes entre la población, no todos los Hispanos son "exactamente iguales" como tienden a creer ustedes.
« England is much more similar to France or Germany than it is to the U.S. in a lot of ways. »
I agree with that completely. Everyone I know from Britain who has been to the United States has said that they feel much more at home in France or Germany than in the US. Equally, on almost every international opinion poll regarding social issues that I've seen, public opinion in Britain has been broadly in-line with much of the rest of Western Europe, but often rather different from the United States.
Here is just one of many examples:
Percentage of people who believe that one should have the freedom to pursue one's goals without state interference, instead of the state ensuring that no-one is in need —
58% — United States
39% — Germany
36% — France
33% — Britain
26% — Italy
http://www.hooverdigest.org/034/berman.html
Equally, the role of religion in life in Britain is very similar to that in much of the rest of Western Europe (especially Scandinavia), but is very different from at least large parts of the United States. The type of Christianity which is mainstream in Britain (if any really is, lol) isn't the same as that in the United States either.
I'm still interested to know what this so-called 'Anglo-Saxon way of thinking' is actually perceived to be.
« Everyone I know from Britain who has been to the United States has said that they feel much more at home in France or Germany than in the US. »
I should really say that this has applied to MOST PARTS of the US from the people to whom I've spoken. I fully understand that New England is supposed to be somewhat similar to England, at least physically.
LAA : « I don't want to get in a long debate with you Greg, but as an American, I can tell you that there is an incredible difference between our culture, and that of England's. »
Je n'en disconviens pas. Ce n'est d'ailleurs pas à l'Angleterre que je songeais en qualifiant les États-Unis de pays anglo-saxon. À partir du moment où la langue dominante est l'anglais, la société peut être qualifiée d'anglo-saxonne, du moins dans la langue française. Si l'on souhaite exprimer les spécificités des États-Unis, il existe un autre adjectif en français : <états-unien>.
LAA : « America is a nation of immigrants (...) ».
La France aussi ; ça ne l'empêche pas d'être une société de type romain.
LAA : « (...) the amount of Anglo-Saxon peoples was easily surpassed by other immigrant groups early since the 19th century; »
Là aussi tu commets un contresens puisque tu interprètes l'adjectif Fr <anglo-saxon> dans son sens le plus restreint et le moins utilisé (ethnie du moyen-âge) et non dans le sens que j'expliquais (culture anglo-saxonne).
LAA : « The southwest is especially not Anglo-Saxon, or related to England in culture, due to an overwhelming Mexican/Hispanic influence which predates English speaking, American settlement. »
De la même manière, le nord-ouest n'est pas particulièrement romain ou lié à l'Italie, en raison de l'influence bretonne qui prédomine et précède la romanisation. Il n'en reste pas moins que la Bretagne fait partie d'une société plus large de type romain, tout comme le Nevada et le Texas sont inclus (pour l'instant) dans un espace anglo-saxon qui les englobe.
Greg,
Seulement pour la curiosité lingüistique, et non pour réveiller des disputes inutiles, déja "rélaxées", hier tu as écrit une phrase à LAA, laquelle m'a interessé beaucoup. Malheuresement, je croi que celle-ci à été supprimée pour notre cher moderator aujourd'hui, parce que les choses ètaint en traîn de devenir "très chaudes" ci-dedans, spécialment pour notre petit ami LAA. Je me demandais si tu pourrais me la répéter, stp. C'ètait quelquechose avec la parole "tarauder", je crois. En cette phrase, tu le récommandais apprendre toutes les trois langes.
Merci et excuse-moi pour mon mauvais français. (je lirais volontiers des corrections!!)
Salut Sergio ! Ne t'inquiète pas pour ton français : il est très bon. Malheureusement j'ai oublié cette phrase. J'évoquais juste certaines "pulsions" qui semblaient tarauder LAA sans relâche.
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