Foreigners who speak English like native speakers

Guest   Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:40 pm GMT
Have you ever met non-native speakers who speak English without a foreign accent? Do you think it is possible?
Kirk   Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:00 pm GMT
I've definitely met nonnatives whose accents sounded remarkably close to native ones. Often such people can produce several sentences in a row that sound completely native and then it's just one word every once in awhile that gives their nonnativeness away.
Aquatar   Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:10 pm GMT
I think some people have a really good ear for accents and can practically eliminate their native accent and reproduce a foreign accent. I think for most people though, it is very hard to completely get rid of your own accent. Even if you reach a level in a language where you don't make any mistakes in the construction of your sentences that would give you away as a non-native speaker, your accent most likely will. I say this as I know people who speak English extremely well, and if you were reading something they had written, you might not guess it was not their language, yet if they open their mouth, it is immediately apparent. In this sense I think accent is often one of the biggest obstacles to sounding like a native speaker of a language, lingering on long after problems with grammar and vocabulary have been ironed out.

And also if I tried to mimic any accent from the English speaking world, other than my own, I doubt I would be convincing.
Kirk   Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:00 pm GMT
<<And also if I tried to mimic any accent from the English speaking world, other than my own, I doubt I would be convincing.>>

Yeah I find it hard reliably mimicking other accents in the English-speaking world (by that I mean being convincing to natives of a particular accent). Occasionally just for fun I've played around with imitating RP in the company of RP speakers and even in the cases where they told me I got the vowels right (the vowels are the key for imitating other English accents) it was something like my intonation or stress patterns which weren't quite right to their ears. Intonation can also be very important.

<<I think some people have a really good ear for accents and can practically eliminate their native accent and reproduce a foreign accent. I think for most people though, it is very hard to completely get rid of your own accent. Even if you reach a level in a language where you don't make any mistakes in the construction of your sentences that would give you away as a non-native speaker, your accent most likely will. I say this as I know people who speak English extremely well, and if you were reading something they had written, you might not guess it was not their language, yet if they open their mouth, it is immediately apparent. In this sense I think accent is often one of the biggest obstacles to sounding like a native speaker of a language, lingering on long after problems with grammar and vocabulary have been ironed out. >>

Totally agreed. However, some nonnatives do come *really* close to sounding native. There's a woman I work with who's a nonnative speaker (I don't know her well but I've heard her speak at meetings) and she comes really close to sounding native. I believe she's from an Eastern European country but you'd never guess it from her nearly flawless American accent. She can consistently produce sentence after sentence where her intonation and accent are perfect but occasionally a slightly nonnative pronunciation slips out. It's hardly noticeable but still there if you listen long enough. I'm sure in shorter, everyday exchanges she often passes as a native speaker to people who don't know her (like, say, at the store or something).
Guest   Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:23 pm GMT
The most amazing experience I've had with a non-Brit speaking English with an incredibly English English accent was the time I asked for directions in a department store in Amsterdam. The lady assistant responded to me in such an amazing RP English English type accent that I asked her whereabouts in England she came from and she said she'd never been to the UK in her life. I couldn't believe it. The next thing she said was "I can easily tell that you come from Scotland". On another occasion a lady in Hoorn with another deceptively British type accent also said she's never been to the UK. This confirms that the Dutch must be among the world's best linguists.

One of the mega benefits of being in the Netherlands is the fact that it's virtually impossible to find anybody who doesn't speak English. The only occasion when that happened to me was when I popped into this photographic shop in Leiden and the young guy assistant (about 17 I reckon..maybe he was on work experience or something) had to go and seek out another assistant to handle my query me because he couldn't speak English sufficiently well to deal with me or lacked the confidence to do so. That is very unusual in the Netherlands, even among the youngest kids.
Damian in London N2   Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:24 pm GMT
sorry....forgot my name....Guest above was me.
Tiffany   Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:54 am GMT
My husband has a good friend named Marco who studied the USA for one year in high school. His English accent is very good, but he has to conciously reproduce it - not just speak in English.

I think it is very possible. Actually, my own aim in Italian is to lose my American accent. I haven't done it yet, but I am always complimented on how good my accent is for a non-native speaker. No matter how good my accent is for a foreigner, the day when they don't give me the compliment is the day I celebrate.

Of course a side effect of my intense concentration on accent is that my grammar and vocabulary suck in comparison and they help give me away as a foreigner, perhaps more than my accent...
Welirish   Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:49 am GMT
If you count me as a foreigner although I am an Irish, yes I have seen.It's me :) Actually, all the Irish and Welsh people speak English very well.There is no accent difference between the Englishmen and the other Britishmen who belong to the other nations of Britain.We speak the same accent.Because we've been brought up watching English movies.
Nancy   Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:47 am GMT
Those accent-reduction courses - Do they really work? What is the rate of its success?
Uriel   Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:09 am GMT
Yes -- I met a German woman who had married an American and had to tell me she was originally German -- otherwise I would never have known. And she was only in her early 30's, so it doesn't take decades, either.
"J" from Belg   Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:03 pm GMT
Hi, this is my first time posting, so I hope I get a reply... Lately I've noticed that Americans pronounce the word "weird" in two different ways - I guess depending on where they live. One where the "eir" sounds like "ear" and then another pronounciation I've heard several times is one resembling "word" or "where-d". Has anyone else heard this too? And what dialect would that be? (I'm trying to master the SoCal dialect).
Thanks in advance, "J" (stands for Jelle - that's a boy's name!)
Txema   Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:22 pm GMT
Well. Good postings about this issue. When speaking about accents we need to consider several points:
1- Are we speaking about regional accents?
2 - Are we dealing with "adopted" accent from differen English speakers from different English speaking countries. Say a student who has learned from many of those teachers. He will have for sure such accent mix!!!
3 - If a non-native speaker wants to reduce his foreign accent, he should work on the English Standard Pronunciation The IPA association refers!!!
4- It is possible to make an accent reduction if you know the techniques and become aware of the processes your mind follows to make sounds in other language. even when we use the same characters to write, in most cases we articulate the sounds in different ways.

On the other hand, I have been to UK and believe it or not, they all speak differently. Scottish accent is actually quite far from the one in England. Irish people also have their regional accent, and Welsh people as well. I noticed that people in the capital city are more likely to user a common accent but this happens after having lived there for some years.

I am a non-native english speaker and I do well with my standard english accent because I was taught some techniques based on my native language called "American English Pronunciation for Spanish Speakers". The result was great!!!
People frequently say: "You are from out of town. Where are you from?". When I answer that I am from Spain, they are shocked beause they believed I was from a different English speaking country!!!. The usually find my sound production perfect, including word stress, sentence stress, rythm, and intonation but find strange the "melody" (stardard pronunciation" which doesn´t belong to a particular region or country.

Therefore, if you want to reduce your non-native accent, get "American/British (As you prefer) Pronunciation Techniques" books, methods or classes based on the way you make sounds in your native language.
The historian   Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:53 pm GMT
off topic

<<(stands for Jelle - that's a boy's name!)

Ancient Viking - Scottish name, derived from Giles. Take it your dutch, based on the names usage in present day ;)
Robin   Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:19 am GMT
I am a native speaker, and I had quite lengthy conversation with a Swedish woman in the Tourist Bureau in Sopot. It was only when she asked me where Forres was, that I realised that she was not British.

I had a similar experience in New Zealand. I was at a Hostel, and I started talking to a woman about various places in NZ that I had visited. As we were talking, instead of talking exclusively about NZ places, we seamlessly started talking about places in the South East of England. She was an English person married to a New Zealander, and it is a long time ago, but if I remember correctly, he felt a bit left out when we were talking about British places.
Uriel   Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:56 am GMT
<< Lately I've noticed that Americans pronounce the word "weird" in two different ways - I guess depending on where they live. One where the "eir" sounds like "ear" and then another pronounciation I've heard several times is one resembling "word" or "where-d". >>

I've never heard Americans pronounce it any way but "weerd". Ever.