Going to a Doctor

the doctor   Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:11 pm GMT
<<You still have not answered the question - where is "doctor appointment" native?>>

News flash, I am a native English speaker currently situated in Sweden. I use “doctor appointment” though the form “doctor´s appointment” is far more widely used. Then again, the amount of people using a form does not automatically mean that it is correct, please note the example I was making about the use of slang.

<<I'm not sure how you can argue with that as I have proof in the form of answers by other native speakers>>

Of course you do. I do not, so you have a real advantage here : /

<<Since both "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" are native forms>>

native forms as in being used or as in correct? ;)
Tiffany   Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:22 pm GMT
Native forms used. I am not here to say what is correct or not when used by a native speaker.

And why didn't you just come out and say your were a native speaker? It would have cleared alot up. Where are you from originally (or where is your dialect of English from)?
Melly   Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:41 pm GMT
''Please give examples then of "doctor appointment" in native usage''

Try google ;)
.uk, .ca, .us sites:)
myself   Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:27 am GMT
Hi,

When searching on Google, and writing "doctor appointment", all the results will show "doctor's appointment".

Then I will use myself "doctor's appointment" only. It looks like to be the common practice all over the world, isn't it ?

Cheers.
myself   Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:28 am GMT
Hi,

When searching on Google, and writing "doctor appointment", all the results will show "doctor's appointment".

Then I will use myself "doctor's appointment" only. It looks like to be the common practice all over the world, doesn't it ?

Cheers.
todosmentira   Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:57 am GMT
<<Forgive me, but I was helping a non native speaker to learn the correct form and at the same time point out why "doctor´s appointment" could be misinterpreted for the non - native speaker.>>

No you weren't; you originally implied in the following quote that the use of possessive 's to signal relationships other than possession was 'incorrect':

<<If speaking correct English sounds foreign, so be it!! Having said that; this is an English learning forum and as such the correct form should be high lighted as well as encoureged...NOT the incorrect form.>>


Do you stand by this last remark or not?
todosmentira pretending t   Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:08 pm GMT
ahem! excuse me

your use of 'stand by' is incorrect and very confusing because this suggests that one is actually standing next to the remark!

Let's** change the English language just in case there are any confusing bits for new learners eh?

**no possession implied - sorry for my 'incorrect English!
the doctor   Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:20 pm GMT
<<No you weren't; you originally implied in the following quote that the use of possessive’s to signal relationships other than possession was 'incorrect':>>

You seize on one detail of a comment (amongst many), refute it and then appear to miss the whole point of the submission.

<<Do you stand by this last remark or not?>>

Based on my example (doctor appointment), I do. Both in its written and spoken form! (Leaves no room for misinterpretations for either a native or a non - native speaker) Furthermore; I never suggested that the use of possessive s would be limited to pure possession as a rule.

<<your use of 'stand by' is incorrect and very confusing because this suggests that one is actually standing next to the remark! >>

Now you see it from a English learner / non – native speakers point of view…progress ;) I tried to do the same (hence my example in the first place)

<<Let's** change the English language just in case there are any confusing bits for new learners eh?>>

You are on your own, good luck though.
Kelly   Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:57 pm GMT
a friend of Joshua
a friend of Joshua's

People are using 's too much these days.
GUest 11   Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:30 am GMT
What about the use of "a medical appointment"?
todosmentira   Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:02 pm GMT
So you still say that 'a doctor's appointment' is incorrect then?

Doctor - noun

Appointment - noun


So, in your suggestion - 'doctor appointment' do you have two nouns side by side? Or has 'doctor' somehow turned into an adjective?
If 'doctor appointment' were a compound noun then it would have its own separate entry in the dictionary - I think you'll find that it doesn't.
JW   Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:53 pm GMT
Todosmentira, while you are right that "doctor's appointment" is the correct form of the phrase, your argument is bad. Nouns appear together side by side all the time. And many, many nouns often make the leap from nominative to adjective. Consider these examples: marble bathtub, rock wall, iron hand. And very few of these, if any, have their own entry in the dictionary.
todosmentira   Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:50 pm GMT
yes - you're right - maybe that was a silly argument! I was just trying to boil it down for The doctor and got carried away.

However I do think the nouns you give are 'more like' adjectives in these examples in that they modify and give information about the nouns they precede? I think we could even call them a type of compound noun ...

For example for the noun 'wood' we have the adjectival form 'wooden,' which seems a better modifier for a following noun. But there is no equivalent for iron, rock (a ferric?? hand would be ridiculous) or marble.

I wonder if there are any examples similar to the ones you've given (not strictly compound nouns), in which an animate noun like doctor precedes another noun?
the doctor   Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:25 pm GMT
It seems that though being a native English speaker and at the same time bi lingual due to two stubborn parents, It has its downsides (nicely put) It surely did not work for my advantage this time and It bothers me a great deal that I was wrong (exception the room for misinterpretation from a non - native speaker)it is an embarrassment for me. What I need to find out is why I have heard so "many" use the term "doctor appointment"?? I do not really get this. Hell I am using it myself :) I now redraw from this discussion and I end it with an apology towards both Tiffany and Todosmentira. I am really sorry girls :(
todosmentira   Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:20 pm GMT
hmmmm - this sheds some light on the conundrum:

http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/082504.htm

http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/d26.html

After reading this I would think a reasonable rule would be:

1. The short possessive form can indicate relationships other than possession - e.g. standing in for 'with'

2. Inanimate nouns that describe a 'classification, material or origin (?)' may precede a noun without the short possessive form. These are called attributive nouns.

3. For proper nouns the short possessive may be omitted. ?

Any suggestions?