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Is Latin a waste of time?
>> Saying that Latin will help you learn other languages is like saying that dating your girlfriend's grandparents will help you get to know her better.
The above passage is naive and puerile.
<<
Rubbish. If you study Latin just to help yourself learn Spanish, it *is* a waste of time: you could just concentrate on Spanish, and learn it faster. If you want to learn Latin, go for it. But if you're just learning it to help improve your Spanish then forget it. You're wasting your time learning another language you don't need to learn. That's like saying: oh yes, you should learn Proto-Germanic to know English better--it's a waste of time if you just want to learn English. Proto-Germanic is a highly inflected language, whereas English is not, so you would just be learning a lot of grammar that really wouldn't help your English all that much, because English doesn't have all those inflections. Learning how to decline "agricola" in Latin, won't help you form plurals in Spanish, just like learning how to decline "ehwaz" in Proto-Germanic, won't help you form English plurals. Both English and the Romance languages have dispensed with many of the inflections found in their parent languages.
a.p.a.m."Knowledge of Latin will make you sound more articulate and more educated". Gringo "Really, I don't understand your point of view". Gringo, all I can say is that I can't help you. If you can't see how Latin will enhance your vocabulary, you're lost.
I can explain:
Latin will only enhance your Latin vocabulary. People that do not learn Latin sound inarticulated, unintelligible. The great majority of Romance speakers speak in an inarticulated way because they do not speak Latin.
Romance languages like Spanish and French are inarticulated languages.
Only Latin is an articulated Language.
Romance speakers will need to learn Latin to get their languages articulated. You will sound educated if you swear in Latin becuase no one will understand you.
Your vocabulary will be enhanced if you start by adding more and more Latin words to your language until you only Latin.
Either way you will not be understood.
Wagner, I disagree. Latin forms the backbone of many languages. English and other languages continue to borrow from Latin all the time. You said "Either way you will not be understood." Any student of anyone of the Romance languages will be able to comprehend some, or a lot of Latin depending on how well he/she knows that particular Romance language. Compare Latin to Old Norse, or Anglo-Saxon, or Old Church Slavonic. Are any of those "mother languages" studied as much as Latin, or are they held in the same high regard as Latin? I don't think so.
Hey all! Check out this article I've found. It really explains how Latin is important for Hispanic students to better their 'english & spanish' and so latin can be an reference guide for both. See below>
Latin: A Key to Languages and Cultures
A Message to the Parents of Spanish-Speaking Latin Students (SPANISH version below)
If your child knows Spanish, s/he already knows some Latin!
Twenty-one centuries ago the Romans got control of what's now Spain, and brought the Latin language with them. Over time, Latin evolved into Spanish ... the same Spanish that came to Latin America, the same Spanish that your child uses.
Your child will often recognize the meaning of Latin words by knowing Spanish words that come from them. Examples:
Spanish Latin Meaning of Latin
escribo- scribo- I am writing
mudar- mutare- to change
maduro- maturum- mature
clamar- clamare- to shout, to cry out
padre- patrem- father
madre- matrem- mother
fuerte- fortem- strong
But there's more! When students learn how to connect Spanish words with their Latin parent words, they may also get a key to ENGLISH vocabulary, because thousands of Latin words came into English as well. Look at these examples:
Spanish Latin ENGLISH DERIVATIVES
escribo- scribo- scribe, prescribe, proscribe, inscribe
mudar- mutare- mutate, mutation, immutable
maduro- maturum- mature, immature, maturity, maturation
clamar- clamare- clamor, exclamation, reclamation
padre- patrem- paternal, paternity
madre- matrem- maternal, maternity
fuerte- fortem- fortitude, fortress, fortify
The Los Angeles School District pioneered a program of Latin in the elementary schools for the purpose of making this three-cornered connection of Spanish and English through Latin. Statistics showed a measurable improvement in students' English reading skills as a result of exposure to the Latin program
http://www.promotelatin.org/latinspanish.htm
>> Wagner, I disagree. Latin forms the backbone of many languages. English and other languages continue to borrow from Latin all the time. <<
Yes, Latin VOCABULARY. You can learn Latin vocabulary, and it will certainly help you with identifying and understanding words derived from Latin. But you don't need to take a Latin class to do that. Latin classes spend most of the time teaching grammar and reading Latin, which is all well and good if you want to learn Latin itself, but if you just want to improve your vocabulary in English and the Romance languages, you don't need to learn Latin itself, just Latin VOCABULARY and etymological root words.
That was a very good explanation Sigma
It really explains how Latin is important for Hispanic students.\
It is only for Hispanic students that have difficulties in learning English. Not for anyone else.
They have difficulties teaching English to Hispanics and whant to add English words of Latin origin to make them understand difficult words in English.
They use the same argument to make students learn Greek:
HIGH SCHOOL
Sharpens analytical language skills and improves knowledge of English
Improves the students' SAT scores. The Verbal average of students who take Greek and/or Latin is consistently higher than for other students.
Why Study Greek?
(from Andrea Craig, La Jolla H.S.)
You're a busy high school student loaded down with classes, clubs, sports and a social life. So why would you want to study GREEK?!?
Only for the following reasons...
Are you interested in doing well on the SAT's?
Most people know that Ancient Greek is one of the roots of English language. However what most people don't know is that Ancient Greek (along with Latin) is the major building block of SAT vocabulary. After you have studied Greek, you can figure out words like:
myriad
lexiphanes
eudemonism
polyglot
patronymic
even if you've never seen them before!
Thinking about being a Biology Major in college or going to Medical School?
What goes for vocabulary building on the SATs goes double for medical terminology. Check out the following gems that studying Greek will give you.
1. Medical word: anhypnia: an/hypn/ia
Greek breakdown:
an - not, without, lacking, deficient
hypn - sleep
ia - state or condition
Meaning: the state of lacking sleep.
I think it is a waste of time. It is better to use your time to learn English and study your books than losing your time learning Latin and Greek to learn to speak English.
http://www.promotelatin.org/greekOld.htm#why
>> Most people know that Ancient Greek is one of the roots of English language. However what most people don't know is that Ancient Greek (along with Latin) is the major building block of SAT vocabulary. After you have studied Greek, you can figure out words like: <<
Or you can just study ETYMOLOGY, and instead of spending 9/10 of your time learning conjugations and declensions, which will do very little to help your VOCABULARY, you could just focus on learning the root words, and you'd know just as much in an hour as if you wasted your time learning inflexional endings for 10 hours.
The grammar of Latin and Greek won't help all that much to recognize root words in English and other languages. Unless you enjoy learning grammar and want to learn Ancient Greek or Latin, you certainly don't need to teach yourself these languages just to learn a few root words.
I see my impersonator (the two posts above) is still alive and well here on Antimoon. Some pathetic people must really hate me here.
>> I see my impersonator (the two posts above) is still alive and well here on Antimoon. Some pathetic people must really hate me here. <<
Huh? What do you mean? The two posts above are from 2 different people: Wagner and I. Or do you mean Wagner and João??
I think the messages LAA is refering to are at the bottom of the previous page. He probably didn't realize there was a second page.
Back on topic I agree that knowledge of Latin in non-essential to learning a Romance language. I think my Italian husband would agree with me - he even goes so far as to say the Latin he learned in school was a huge waste of time as he can't even remember any of it. But he is not a lover of languages as I am.
««Knowledge of Latin will make you sound more articulate and more educated.»»
«Really, I do not understand your point of view.»
I second this. Can you explain to me how knowledge of Latin will make anyone more articulate? Unless of course they plan to start speaking Latin, instead of English, Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese etc... Perhaps you meant something else?*
Sono d'accordo. Puoi spiegarmi come la conoscenza del latino può rendere una persona più eloquente? A meno che questa persona voglia parlare latino, invece di inglese, spagnolo, italiano, francese, portughese ecc... Vuoi dire qualcos'altro?*
Latin is not useless. Many langauges have grown from it, and others have borrowed. You can see this reflected in the roots of many words. To study Latin is to study a great language, to see where ideas came from, make connections, study our linguistic heritage. However, I'm not sure how knowledge of Latin would make me excel at Italian. Only knowledge of Italian would cause me to do that!
*In English using more Latinate words is considered more formal, as our ordinary vocabulary is Germanic. I do not however, see how this would affect Romance languages as they already use Latinate vocabulary in ordinary speech. Might this be what you meant apam?
As 'sigma' has pointed out, Latin is indeed useful and beneficial when it comes to connecting root words (etymology) to a romance tongue or English. However, If one desires to learn Latin at it's fullest extent (including grammar, declension and vocabulary) which most likely helps a bit with English. He or she should take a course at a university. Other then that, I don't see a problem with learning Latin.
"In English using more Latinate words is considered more formal, as our ordinary vocabulary is Germanic."
What a bunch of Baloney. English is predominately Latin based 50-60% (directly or indirectly).
<<"In English using more Latinate words is considered more formal, as our ordinary vocabulary is Germanic."
What a bunch of Baloney. English is predominately Latin based 50-60% (directly or indirectly).>>
Please re-read what I said. You obviously missed my meaning. I said "ordinary vocabulary" meaning everyday words. Of course, if you can show me that this paragraph of "ordinary vocabulary" is made of 50-60% Latinate words, then I tip my hat to you.
"Please re-read what I said. You obviously missed my meaning. I said "ordinary vocabulary" meaning everyday words. Of course, if you can show me that this paragraph of "ordinary vocabulary" is made of 50-60% Latinate words, then I tip my hat to you. "
Okay, easy....
Direct-latin words:
Please: -plaisir (french) from Latin -placere-
Re: -via Old French from Latin, 'again, anew' -re-
Obviously:- Late 16th century. Formed from Latin -obvius- “in the way,” hence “readily seen,” from via “way” (source of English voyage).
Ordinary:-14th century. Via Old French from medieval Latin ordinarius “following the usual course,” from the Latin stem -ordin-.
Vocabulary:-Mid-16th century. From medieval Latin vocabularium , literally “of words,” from Latin -vocabulum-.
Course:- 13th century. Via French cours from Latin cursus , the past participle of -currere-.
Paragraph:- 15th century. Via Old French from, ultimately, Greek paragraphos “stroke marking a line in which there is a break in sense,” literally “writing beside,” ultimately from graphein “to write.”
Latinate:- Pre-12th century. From Latin Latinus “of the people of Latium, Roman,” from Latium , an ancient region of western central Italy.
&
Indirect-latin words (Indoeuropean, etc):
read: =Old English hwæt. Ultimately from an Indo-European word that also produced Latin 'quot'
I: =Old English ic . Via prehistoric Germanic from an Indo-European word meaning “I” that is also the ancestor of English -ego- and egotism. Hence, 'I'
Day:=Old English dæg . Ultimately from an Indo-European word that is also the ancestor of Latin fovere “to warm.” The underlying sense is “time when the sun is hot.”
Can:= Old English canne . Either from a prehistoric Germanic word or from late Latin -canna-.
Me/My:=Old English mē , me . Ultimately from an Indo-European word that is also the ancestor of English mine, French me, Greek me, emé, Welsh and Irish mi, and German mich.
Word:=[Old English. Ultimately from an Indo-European word that is also the ancestor of Latin verbum (source of English verb) and Greek rhētôr “public speaker” (source of English rhetoric)
So,
In total, 18 words are of Latin orgin (directly or indirectly). Behold,
-Please- -re- read -what- -I- said. You -obviously- missed -my- meaning. -I- said "-ordinary- -vocabulary-" meaning every-day- words. Of -course-, if you -can- show -me- that this -paragraph- of "-ordinary- -vocabulary-" is made of 50-60% -Latinate- words, then -I- tip -my- hat to you.
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