About Latin in films...

Pete   Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:00 am GMT
Have you seen 'The passion of the Christ'?

I saw it a couple of times, and the pronunciation of certain words they say, like numbers, is a bit different from what I would expect... for example I frequently hear them pronouncing possible v's like English v's as in 'Ave' when some soldiers make fun of Jesus... I also keep hearing some 'ch' sounds, when I guess such sounds didn't exist at the time.

Was that a fake 'vulgar latin' supossedly spoken by Romans in JUDAEA at the time? or it was just wrong pronunciation and factual errors?

Please, all those latin experts, enlighten me...

Pete from Peru
Latin   Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:45 am GMT
They simply pronounced it as Italian. They probably figured no one would notice. They didn't take any pains to research how it would have sounded at the time, and since 99% wouldn't notice, it didn't really matter.
Bubba   Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:41 am GMT
The Latin used in The Passion of the Christ was pronounced like Ecclesiastical Latin--that is, the way Latin is pronounced and used in the Roman Catholic Church. Students of Classical Latin know that the language underwent some changes en-route to its status as the lingua franca of the multinational church, most of which did, as pointed out above, render the pronunciations as if they were modern Italian.

Specifically, Classical Latin is thought to have had no "ch" sound (as you said, Pete). Likewise, the "v" was pronounced with great similarity to the modern English "w". The combination "ae" would have been pronounced like the word "eye" in English. The "g" was never soft, always hard as in "garden", and the "j" was much closer to an English "y" or "short-i" sound.

I'm glad to know someone besides me found this a bit distracting--but I'm also glad that lots of people have seen this account of a pivotal moment in world history and Christian faith.
Marc   Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:02 am GMT
I as a spanish-learning speaker, understood some phrases or words in Latin.

For example:
Es medianox albero. = Es medianoche albero.
Quis es veritas? = Que es la verdad?
Audient =oyen
Rex es tu? = Eres (tu) un rey?
Suum excellentia = Su excelencia
Albero idiota = Albero idiota
Meum mundo non est = My world is not
Molestia = molestia / molesta
etc. etc. etc.

and of course the numerical words used in the movie.
Pete   Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:10 am GMT
Yes that's cool, Marc. It was exciting for me to see that film and understand some parts as well.

I guess it's 'Quid is veritas, Claudia?'. That's what Pilate says in the film. Is there any other film where they use latin?

In the end of the scourging scene when Abenader enters he says something like

'MANDATUS ERA GALILEUM PUNIRE, NON CASTIGARE AB MORTEM'

Well, something like that, I'm not sure about the last part.

Pete from Peru
Skippy   Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:23 am GMT
My Latin skills are weak (at best), and non-existent when I saw the Passion, so I didn't notice any of that...However, I'm not surprised that they may have used Ecclesiastical Latin (as Gibson is extremely Catholic, for example Mary wearing, basically, a nun-outfit, and Jesus being nailed through the hands instead of the wrists). I wouldn't put it off as historical inaccuracy (as the Aramaic was probably not easy to put to dialog).
Presley.   Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:45 am GMT
I was too, wondering about the Latin spoken in The Pasission of The Christ. I just noticed something was different, but I didn't know specifically what it was.

I really enjoyed reading this thread - very enlightening. As for the movie itself, I thought it was beautiful.