Yod-dropping

Josh Lalonde   Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:51 pm GMT
While we're on the topic of yod-coalescence, I was wondering, Travis, if it applies before or after final t glottaling for you (assuming you have yod-coalescence). Eg. is 'get you' [gE?ju] or [gEt_Sju] for you?
Travis   Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:19 pm GMT
Coda /t/ glottalization to [?] (this occurs in cases other than word-finally, but the word-final case is just the most common) does not occur when a following syllable (typically in another word) has /j/ in an onset position. Rather, what normally occurs is palatalization and affrication to [tSj] or [tS] (with the former generally occuring in more formal speech and the latter generally occuring in less formal speech). And yes, "get you" is normally [gEtSju:], [gEtSu:], or [gEtS@:] for me.
zzz   Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:00 am GMT
In my idiolect: new, news, Tuesday, student and dew all have the yod. The rest do not.
Uriel   Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:37 am GMT
>>I don't stick an unnecessary Y into any word at all.<<

That's what you think. But in speech for example "don't you" often becomes one word: "donchyew". And "what you" ~ "whachew".

That's not "an unecessary Y", though, since there clearly IS a Y in "you". I DO pronounce Y's where they actually occur -- I just don't introduce them into words where they don't, like news or tune.
Guest   Sun Mar 11, 2007 1:45 am GMT
>>That's not "an unecessary Y", though, since there clearly IS a Y in "you". I DO pronounce Y's where they actually occur -- I just don't introduce them into words where they don't, like news or tune.<<

Like "cute", "huge", "music", "few", ...
Guest   Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:26 am GMT
>> Like "cute", "huge", "music", "few", ... <<

Why does these preserve it?
Lazar   Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:00 am GMT
<<Why does these preserve it?>>

Because in American English, the yod [j] is only dropped after alveolars: [t], [d], [s], [z], and [n]. After all the other consonants, the yod is retained.
Travis   Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:55 am GMT
>><<Why does these preserve it?>>

Because in American English, the yod [j] is only dropped after alveolars: [t], [d], [s], [z], and [n]. After all the other consonants, the yod is retained.<<

I should note that it is also dropepd after /r/ and /l/, but this is an older yod-dropping that is present in most English dialects today (and not just North American English).
Guest   Sun Mar 11, 2007 11:19 am GMT
>>I should note that it is also dropepd after /r/ and /l/<<

There is a yod after /l/ in the word "value".
Josh Lalonde   Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:12 pm GMT
Yod is traditionally only dropped after /l/ in RP in consonant clusters, eg. 'blue' [blu:], 'clue' [klu:]. Younger people are increasingly dropping yod in words with initial /l/ (eg. lute), as with /s/ (eg. suit).
Travis   Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:15 pm GMT
>>There is a yod after /l/ in the word "value".<<

Such is a consequence of syllable structure, as yod-dropping generally has only occurred when /j/ occurs in an onset with another consonant which it is dropped after; if the two are separated into different syllables such has generally not occurred.
Guest   Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:01 pm GMT
You could say the same of the /t/ in "virtue".

Using Uriel's "tulip-chewlip" analogy, we get "vir-chew" even for North Americans. I wonder if Uriel thinks such is "an unnecessary Y".
Guest   Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:02 pm GMT
* "vir-chew" or possibly "virtyew" in careful speech.
Josh Lalonde   Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:36 am GMT
<<''You could say the same of the /t/ in "virtue".

Using Uriel's "tulip-chewlip" analogy, we get "vir-chew" even for North Americans. I wonder if Uriel thinks such is "an unnecessary Y".>>

This is called yod-coalescence. It occurs in American English in unstressed syllables. It is common in RP as well, but not universal.
Uriel   Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:06 am GMT
Nope, I stand corrected -- I guess I do have it in some words.