What kind of things do you usually do on the 4th of July in the US?
4th of July
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4th of July
*Well we light fire works
*Have a large Family gathering
*Flag waving
*History Lessons
*Reactments of the War of independence
*Annual Union Jack flag burning
*Public hoilday so it probably to a day at the lake
*Well we light fire works
*Have a large Family gathering
*Flag waving
*History Lessons
*Reactments of the War of independence
*Annual Union Jack flag burning
*Public hoilday so it probably to a day at the lake
Maybe a wonderful time of year for Americans... I'm just concerned about one things you said in your last post Benis..
"Annual Union Jack flag burning"
I had to laugh at that one ... unless you really weren't joking, for the way some Americans carry on when their flag is burnt ... no, it's still kind of funny either way.
I had to laugh at that one ... unless you really weren't joking, for the way some Americans carry on when their flag is burnt ... no, it's still kind of funny either way.
WTF? I never met a fellow American on the 4th of July who burned a Union Jack.... I wonder if a Brit burns our flag on the 4th of July.. how does Benis feel about it?...... Remember Benis they lost the 13 colonies so that may be a possible excuse to burn ours... I don't think it would be acceptable to both countries if we burned flags... damn WTF?!
Ren,
The Union Jack burning thing was Benis's idea of a joke. Just laugh.
The Union Jack burning thing was Benis's idea of a joke. Just laugh.
I thought it was a joke & so I did laugh but then I thought "But what if ..."
"On July 4th, 1776, the American colonists claimed their independence from Britain. "
No they didn't. They got their independence on 5th July, but Americans celebrate on the wrong day.
No they didn't. They got their independence on 5th July, but Americans celebrate on the wrong day.
"EU-ropean, I don't get what you're saying. Sold by/to whom? Absorbed into what? "
Well, most of the present day US didn't get its independence from Britain. Lots of it got its independence from Spain and France. And other parts yous tole from Mexico.
Louisiana was once a piece of the French Empire ruled by your pal Napoleon (the 19th Century equivalent of Hitler) which you bought from him and made it a state.
Spain once ruled Florida and other states nearby.
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California used to be a part of Mexico (in fact, most of the Southern half of California is STILL in Mexico) until you stole them and made them a part of the US, whilst deriding the British for having Northern Ireland.
Alaska only became a US state in the 1950's when you bought it from Russia. It actually used to be a part of Russia. Hawaii also only became a state in the 1950's, until you then decided to subjugate it, even though it was a fully independent Pacific nation prior to that point.
Most of the states in the Central and Western US are square or oblong-shaped because when the US occupied that land the people thought that it would be easy to create states there by making them into a chessboard pattern. Just look at the shape of Colorado. And most of those states have nonsense names that don't meant anything - you may think Idaho and Montana and Arizona are Spanish names, but they don't eman anything at all. One of the suggested names for Arizona when it was founded was "Montezuma."
So everyone always says that the US got its independence from Britain - but only 13 of the 50 US states did.
Well, most of the present day US didn't get its independence from Britain. Lots of it got its independence from Spain and France. And other parts yous tole from Mexico.
Louisiana was once a piece of the French Empire ruled by your pal Napoleon (the 19th Century equivalent of Hitler) which you bought from him and made it a state.
Spain once ruled Florida and other states nearby.
Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California used to be a part of Mexico (in fact, most of the Southern half of California is STILL in Mexico) until you stole them and made them a part of the US, whilst deriding the British for having Northern Ireland.
Alaska only became a US state in the 1950's when you bought it from Russia. It actually used to be a part of Russia. Hawaii also only became a state in the 1950's, until you then decided to subjugate it, even though it was a fully independent Pacific nation prior to that point.
Most of the states in the Central and Western US are square or oblong-shaped because when the US occupied that land the people thought that it would be easy to create states there by making them into a chessboard pattern. Just look at the shape of Colorado. And most of those states have nonsense names that don't meant anything - you may think Idaho and Montana and Arizona are Spanish names, but they don't eman anything at all. One of the suggested names for Arizona when it was founded was "Montezuma."
So everyone always says that the US got its independence from Britain - but only 13 of the 50 US states did.
In fact, the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence only on 2nd July 1776, and it wasn't signed until the 2nd August. So when you celebrate Independence day on July 4th, some of us Brits laugh at you, because we know you didn't get your independence until 2nd August!
U.S. Independence Celebrated on the Wrong Day?
John Roach
for National Geographic News
July 2, 2004
On Sunday, the Fourth of July, millions of U.S. citizens will fire up the barbeque and shoot off fireworks in celebration of the Declaration of Independence, a now-sacred document that declares the independence of what were then 13 united colonies from England.
But the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence on the second of July in 1776. No one signed it until August 2, and the last signatures didn't come until the end of November.
"The only thing that happened on the fourth was they approved the document," said Ronald Hoffman, director of the Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.
Several members of the Congress who voted for independence never signed the document, and several members who signed the document, were absent when the vote was taken, Hoffman added.
John Adams, the second President of the United States, was in 1776 a delegate to the Continental Congress representing the colony of Massachusetts. He wrote in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776, that "the second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America."
Pauline Maier, a professor of U.S. history and authority on the American Revolution, said that "in 1777, Congress didn't think of recalling the event until it was too late to celebrate the second, and the fourth became standard."
And much to the chagrin of Adams—who played an active role in revising drafts of the declaration into its final form—Virginia representative Thomas Jefferson, who drafted the original, took much of the credit as the sole author of the document.
"John Adams's claim to share in the glory of independence was well founded," Maier said. "He did far more than Jefferson to bring Congress to the point of approving separation from Britain."
Coincidentally, Jefferson and Adams both died on July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence was approved.
Declaring Independence
Gordon Wood, a history professor at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, said that today many U.S. citizens fail to understand the gravity of the Declaration of Independence.
"Most people don't think about it too much," he said. "It's an occasion for cookouts and firecrackers, but at the time it was a big deal—breaking away from the British Empire and establishing independence."
The declaration sets forth a list of grievances with the King of England, George III, that justified a breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country. At the time, the British Empire was all-powerful. A group of colonies breaking away was an unprecedented event, Wood said.
"Now Britain seems like small potatoes compared to the power of the U.S. The whole relationship has been reversed," he said.
The declaration was drafted by a committee of five appointed by the Continental Congress on June 11, 1776. Members included Adams of Massachusetts, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Robert Livingston of New York, and Jefferson of Virginia.
The committee selected Jefferson to draft the document, which members of the committee revised and then submitted to the Continental Congress on June 28. The Congress tabled it.
"After approving a resolution on Independence submitted by Richard Henry Lee on July 2, Congress took up the tabled draft declaration and, as a committee of the whole, edited it, then finally approved the version it had edited on July 4," Maier said.
Slavery Debate
According to Hoffman, the debate over Jefferson's original draft was heated.
"Jefferson's original draft included a strong condemnation of slavery and the slave trade," he said. "The southern delegation wouldn't go along with it, so Jefferson backed off and allowed it to be removed."
The removal of the antislavery language, according to Hoffman, left Jefferson feeling like the British had the moral high ground. The last royal governor of Virginia, John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, had offered freedom to any slaves who joined in the fight on the side of the king.
"Jefferson felt the rebels needed to justify the revolution on behalf of equality, and you can't have equality when you have a society based on slavery," Hoffman said. "Jefferson's inability to square that circle embedded the contradiction between slavery and freedom at the core of the founding of the United States."
Whether Jefferson felt he lost the moral high ground to the British or not, Maier said that today most Americans revere Jefferson as the father of independence itself and of the declaration.
"We forget the large number of people who were involved, not only the drafting committee and in Congress, but in the towns, counties, and state legislatures that also declared their support for independence, often explaining their reasons in the late spring and early summer of 1776," she said.
Although Fourth of July celebrations were standard fare throughout the 19th century, the day was not an official paid holiday for federal employees until 1941.
nationalgeographic.com
U.S. Independence Celebrated on the Wrong Day?
John Roach
for National Geographic News
July 2, 2004
On Sunday, the Fourth of July, millions of U.S. citizens will fire up the barbeque and shoot off fireworks in celebration of the Declaration of Independence, a now-sacred document that declares the independence of what were then 13 united colonies from England.
But the Continental Congress voted for the Declaration of Independence on the second of July in 1776. No one signed it until August 2, and the last signatures didn't come until the end of November.
"The only thing that happened on the fourth was they approved the document," said Ronald Hoffman, director of the Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture at the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia.
Several members of the Congress who voted for independence never signed the document, and several members who signed the document, were absent when the vote was taken, Hoffman added.
John Adams, the second President of the United States, was in 1776 a delegate to the Continental Congress representing the colony of Massachusetts. He wrote in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776, that "the second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epocha in the history of America."
Pauline Maier, a professor of U.S. history and authority on the American Revolution, said that "in 1777, Congress didn't think of recalling the event until it was too late to celebrate the second, and the fourth became standard."
And much to the chagrin of Adams—who played an active role in revising drafts of the declaration into its final form—Virginia representative Thomas Jefferson, who drafted the original, took much of the credit as the sole author of the document.
"John Adams's claim to share in the glory of independence was well founded," Maier said. "He did far more than Jefferson to bring Congress to the point of approving separation from Britain."
Coincidentally, Jefferson and Adams both died on July 4, 1826, 50 years after the Declaration of Independence was approved.
Declaring Independence
Gordon Wood, a history professor at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, said that today many U.S. citizens fail to understand the gravity of the Declaration of Independence.
"Most people don't think about it too much," he said. "It's an occasion for cookouts and firecrackers, but at the time it was a big deal—breaking away from the British Empire and establishing independence."
The declaration sets forth a list of grievances with the King of England, George III, that justified a breaking of ties between the colonies and the mother country. At the time, the British Empire was all-powerful. A group of colonies breaking away was an unprecedented event, Wood said.
"Now Britain seems like small potatoes compared to the power of the U.S. The whole relationship has been reversed," he said.
The declaration was drafted by a committee of five appointed by the Continental Congress on June 11, 1776. Members included Adams of Massachusetts, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania, Robert Livingston of New York, and Jefferson of Virginia.
The committee selected Jefferson to draft the document, which members of the committee revised and then submitted to the Continental Congress on June 28. The Congress tabled it.
"After approving a resolution on Independence submitted by Richard Henry Lee on July 2, Congress took up the tabled draft declaration and, as a committee of the whole, edited it, then finally approved the version it had edited on July 4," Maier said.
Slavery Debate
According to Hoffman, the debate over Jefferson's original draft was heated.
"Jefferson's original draft included a strong condemnation of slavery and the slave trade," he said. "The southern delegation wouldn't go along with it, so Jefferson backed off and allowed it to be removed."
The removal of the antislavery language, according to Hoffman, left Jefferson feeling like the British had the moral high ground. The last royal governor of Virginia, John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, had offered freedom to any slaves who joined in the fight on the side of the king.
"Jefferson felt the rebels needed to justify the revolution on behalf of equality, and you can't have equality when you have a society based on slavery," Hoffman said. "Jefferson's inability to square that circle embedded the contradiction between slavery and freedom at the core of the founding of the United States."
Whether Jefferson felt he lost the moral high ground to the British or not, Maier said that today most Americans revere Jefferson as the father of independence itself and of the declaration.
"We forget the large number of people who were involved, not only the drafting committee and in Congress, but in the towns, counties, and state legislatures that also declared their support for independence, often explaining their reasons in the late spring and early summer of 1776," she said.
Although Fourth of July celebrations were standard fare throughout the 19th century, the day was not an official paid holiday for federal employees until 1941.
nationalgeographic.com
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