more stupid or stupider

Liliana   Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:54 pm GMT
Hi y'all!
What is the correct way to say?
''more stupid'' or ''stupider''
''the most stupid'' or ''the stupidest''?

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary lists: STUPID adj (-er; -est)
but Wikipedia dictionary considers ''these forms (stupider, stupidest'' non-standard?

Please come to an agreement so I can use it properly.
Greetz from Austria
SpaceFlight   Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:58 pm GMT
It's "stupider" and "stupidest". That they're wrong is one of the stupidest things I've heard.
Guest   Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:01 pm GMT
I agree that "stupider" and "stupidest" are correct.
Andy   Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:05 pm GMT
I hate to spoil the party but personally I wouldn't use stupider or stupidest. I agree with Wiki. Both these words sound like made up American words to me. I would search for a more eloquent phrase. (An eloquenter phrase?? ;-) ) or use a long winded alternative. e.g "less intelligent" or "the least intelligent". I'm wondering where SpaceFlight and Guest hail from.
Guest   Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:24 pm GMT
Shut up, Andy. I wonder if you know where the Oxford dictionary is made. Here's a hint. It's not America. Come back when you get a clue, idiot.
Lazar   Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:01 am GMT
"Stupider" and "stupidest" are what I would naturally use.
Travis   Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:32 am GMT
I likewise would normally use "stupider" and "stupidest". On that note, I for one will say that "more stupid" and "most stupid" sound like things that only individuals bent on being "correct" in the prescriptivist sense would say, and for that matter simply sound completely unnatural when actual spoken.
Andy   Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:33 am GMT
The University I attended was in Oxford so yes I do know where it is. (No I didn't study English there). I don't care what you read in the dictionary. I think the two words are substandard. I thought this was an English language forum but apparently my thoughts are not required. Tough sh*t I'm going air my thoughts anyway. Liliana if you want to use the word "stupider" people will understand you but it sounds slightly crude to my ears. I'm not keen on the word "stupid".
Josh Lalonde   Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:35 pm GMT
I agree with Travis et. al. above: stupider and stupidest.
Josh Lalonde   Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:55 pm GMT
This is what I pulled off of Wiktionary:

"stupid (comparative stupider or more stupid, superlative stupidest or most stupid)"

No mention of non-standard, and certainly not "sub-standard". I agree with Travis, 'more stupid' sounds to me like a typical prescriptivist mistake, just like: "Whom came to the door?"
Liz   Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:43 pm GMT
I very much agree with Andy there.
I wouldnīt use the comparative (not even the superlative) form of "stupid". If someone / something is "stupid", itīs "stupid". Thatīs all. Besides, Iīm not really keen on this word. Iīd rather use "less intelligent" (just like Andy) or anything else, but I try to avoid the word "stupid". Itīs extremely commonplace and slightly offensive, too. BTW, I definitely agree with those who say "stupider" and "the stupidest".

As far as the forms "more stupid" and "the most stupid" are concerned, there is a tendency towards the use of analytic forms instead of synthetic forms (if Iīm not mixing up the two terms). However, itīs Global English, not British, American, Australian etc.

Andy said that these two phrases are substandard. Well, thatīs a word again Iīm not really keen on. Substandard is a prescriptivistic term to denote non-standard regional or social varieties or usages. Thatīs quite pejorative, for the prefix "sub" is insinuating that a certain expression / grammatical construction is *below* the standard, and thus simply wrong and unacceptable. Therefore "substandard" sounds rather unscientific and self-righteous, if you use it in connection with native varieties. If you want to say "more stupid" and "the most stupid" are ungrammatical and foreign-sounding, Iīd recommend you to say simply "ungrammatical" or "foreign-sounding"...if I managed to grasp the meaning of your statement. Sorry for the indoctrination, though.

BTW, I definitely agree with those who say "stupider" and "the stupidest".

<<Shut up, Andy. I wonder if you know where the Oxford dictionary is made. Here's a hint. It's not America. Come back when you get a clue, idiot.>>

Guest, Andy is a Brit!
Liz   Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:49 pm GMT
However, I still have doubts...to me all the comparative and superlative forms of "stupid" sound awkward. I donīt know why. I canīt really choose.

A correction:
<<If you want to say "more stupid" and "the most stupid" are ungrammatical and foreign-sounding, Iīd recommend you to say simply "ungrammatical" or "foreign-sounding">>

I mean "stupider" and "the stupidest". Thatīs what Andy said.
Andy   Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:36 pm GMT
At the risk of repetition or getting my head bitten off again... I'm English and I assume Liz is too. I think it's fair to say we're not keen on "stupid", "stupider" or "stupidest" IN ENGLAND (esp. in Oxford, England). I don't know why. I'm sure you would be fine using these words in other countries.

Liz: Yes my vocabulary let me down with "substandard". I was in a rush and slightly offended by the "shut up" and the "do you know where Oxford is?" guest comments. "substandard" popped into my mind just as I thought "Yes I do know where Oxford is. I lived there for four f*cking years you ****er" .
Minnie   Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:40 pm GMT
[a] ''What is the stupidest thing you've ever done?'' or
[b] ''What is the most stupid thing you've ever done?''

[a] is native speakers' English
[b] is Tarzan English, also known as ''global English''
Travis   Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:01 pm GMT
>>As far as the forms "more stupid" and "the most stupid" are concerned, there is a tendency towards the use of analytic forms instead of synthetic forms (if Iīm not mixing up the two terms). However, itīs Global English, not British, American, Australian etc.<<

The matter is that in contexts like this we are generally not concerned with "Global English", as linguistics generally studies languages as spoken by native speakers, not non-native usages (even though sociolinguistics may study such).

That said, it seems that English at least here in North America has been largely moving towards being highly cliticizing in nature for a while, and there are clear cases of current cliticized constructions which are likely to turn into inflected forms in the future or to be frozen in place as new words (if they have not already), even if the underlying syntax is still rather analytic in nature. Also, the inflectional constructs already in existence, such as strong verbs and irregular weak verbs, do not seem to be dying out either and often seem actually be becoming more irregular in practice in cases (like with many irregular weak verbs losing weak endings).