What is the future of English in the USA?

Peter   Mon May 07, 2007 12:02 am GMT
>> Furthermore, from the perspective of here, the UK is really just a foreign country which happens to have the same language as us<<

Hmm. Well, I wouldn't go that far, to say that it's a "foreign country". I mean, it is the country that founded the Colonies to begin with.

>> Yes, there are notions of some sort of "special relationship" or whatnot that some hold, but in everyday life here such are rather irrelevant. <<

Well, of course politics are rather irrelevant to everyday life, but yes, the US and UK have a special relationship. In fact, the UK is one of the 4 countries that Americans list as allies. If you asked an American to list the allies, he would most likely list the UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ. You don't honestly think that the average American would list Hungary, Poland, Spain, and Germany, do you? From most Americans' perspective, there exists a huge cultural divide that separates the US, the UK, and other Anglo-Saxon countries, from the rest of the world. While we have some trade arrangements from countries like Mexico, the only countries that we really have any affinity to are the UK, and the rest of the Anglo-Saxon countries. Notice that we are not part of anything like the European Union. And just the fact that they are building a wall to separate the US from Mexico, shows the lack of cultural affinity between the two countries. Other than Canada, of course, Americans feel no close connection to the countries surrounding the US. I mean look at the relationship with Cuba, which is just a hop skip and a jump from Florida. Or South America, which seems more foreign and exotic than even Continental Europe. We instead feel a close connection with the more distant UK, Australia, and NZ, although the latter two are rather distant geographically, so we give them less thought.
furrykef   Mon May 07, 2007 12:10 am GMT
<< Hmm. Well, I wouldn't go that far, to say that it's a "foreign country". I mean, it is the country that founded the Colonies to begin with. >>

The thing is it's foreign now, even if it wasn't foreign before. England is no more or less foreign to me than, say, Australia. If I went to either country, it wouldn't feel all that foreign since they speak English and their culture is much more similar to ours than, say, Japanese culture, but they're still equally foreign to me.

- Kef
Peter   Mon May 07, 2007 12:16 am GMT
>> The thing is it's foreign now, even if it wasn't foreign before. England is no more or less foreign to me than, say, Australia.<<

Yes, exactly. I didn't mean to say that Australia would feel like a foreign country, but rather it is more distant geographically, so less often visited. But neither of them would be as foreign as say Germany or Switzerland, which are so different culturally. The people act completely differently, whereas Americans, Australians, and British people act the same, and have the same cultural roots.
Guest   Mon May 07, 2007 2:12 am GMT
>> The people act completely differently, whereas Americans, Australians, and British people act the same<<

Hmm. I wouldn't go that far. There are certainly some differences. They don't act the *same*.
Guest   Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 am GMT
British And Australians dont inherit paranoia as a disease but Americans do.
Guest   Mon May 07, 2007 2:38 am GMT
Australians also look slightly different physically than their British and American counterparts. So yeah, they are not all the same despite of speaking and following the same language and culture.
Guest   Mon May 07, 2007 4:44 am GMT
>> Australians also look slightly different physically than their British and American counterparts. <<

How so? And what about the British ones that move over there? How long does it take them to change?
Mark   Mon May 07, 2007 9:50 am GMT
Spanish is already the second language in the USA de-facto and not de-jure. In every single major city, throughout the south and on both coasts hearing Spanish on a daily basis is a common occurrence. In some mid-western, plains, and rocky mountain states away from urban centers it might be a rare occurrence, but one is never far from the thousands of radio, TV, and internet press in Spanish. And certainly, living a life in south florida, the US southwest and the New York and Chicago metropolitan areas *solely in* Spanish is certainly possible. What people seem to so easily forget is that most US territory was under Spanish, not English jurisdiction, for centuries. The Hispanic cultural imprint was already there when the US expanded. If the US does not become majority Spanish speaking in 2 generation I would be surprised. What most American have to accept is that Spanish, not English, is the common glue that holds them together. It is a mental shift but it can be done, and is being done, little by little. When one begins to see signs, hear a language spoken around them, and begins to work with speakers of that language, gradually you become accustomed to it. If you are an expat in Paris and choose not to learn French, you will still learn it sublimely due to its presence around you.Same thing for any language around the world. The same is happening here. When you go to Wal Mart, McDonalds, a bank, and see all material printed in two languages, you begin to realize that you live in a bilingual country, and naturally you begin to form a cultural affinity for that language and a need to learn it.
Peter   Mon May 07, 2007 10:58 am GMT
you are totally wrong Mark, Americans speak English, always have, always will. People have come from all over the world to this country because of its prosperity and wealth, and key to that is its unique english speaking capability. The whole world will be speaking AMERICAN english in 2 generations, not the other way round.
Ozie   Mon May 07, 2007 11:04 am GMT
<< What people seem to so easily forget is that most US territory was under Spanish, not English jurisdiction, for centuries. >>

And what can you say the enormous Louisiana territory sold by France to the US? Now how are you gonna make your statement that most of the US territory were Spanish possession agree with this statement of mine?
Australasia   Mon May 07, 2007 12:20 pm GMT
Louisiana was French but also Spanish!!!
Ozie   Mon May 07, 2007 1:13 pm GMT
So you're still alive, Geoff! I know that you're a hispanic in disguise. If Lousiana was Spanish too, then Mexico was French too because it was occuppied by France in the 19th century. Hahahahaha!
Ozie   Mon May 07, 2007 1:37 pm GMT
Spanish is in retreat, and it's giving way to English. Yesterday Mexicans, Central Americans, Dominican Republicans, and Puerto Ricans Speak English with thick accent, today many of them speak perfect Yankee English, tomorrow all of them are gonna be native English speakers leaving the Spanish language inside the cupboard.

To my fellow English speakers, thanks a lot for sharing your views with mine. You know we must resist the dark scheme of this Spanish speaking fanatics to take over the English speaking lands. We cannot allow them to do that, can we? Our ancestors founded and brought our land into their present progressive status, the envy of those fanatics.

I can just imagine if ever they succeeded in taking them over. They gonna turn them into funland dancing all those salsa, flamenco instead of making themselves busy earning a living to build a progressive society.
Aldo   Mon May 07, 2007 2:31 pm GMT
<<Spanish is in retreat, and it's giving way to English. Yesterday Mexicans, Central Americans, Dominican Republicans, and Puerto Ricans Speak English with thick accent, today many of them speak perfect Yankee English,>>

Well as Central American I don't think that people in the rest of the continent speak "perfect Yankee English" as you said. It seems rather that there is a deficit of English speakers to face the demand of the lot of U.S. companies and world touring activities that settle around here.

Anyway the English, Spanish, French, Chinese or any other, as secondary language, are just to work with them not to speak them at home and they stick and spread as much as people need them to obtain a benefit from them, then you see f.e. Spanish, Italian, French, Japanese, Chinese, Swedish, etc. speaking singers singing in English and others languages and vice-versa to reach more markets and then sell all they can.

I think that today the success of languages has to be more with money than with culture.
Sarcastic Northwesterner   Mon May 07, 2007 3:06 pm GMT
>> Spanish is already the second language in the USA de-facto and not de-jure. In every single major city, throughout the south and on both coasts hearing Spanish on a daily basis is a common occurrence. <<

Here is some data for the Northwest, for example. According to the Census, in Seattle, WA 76% of the population speaks English only, 78% speak English natively or at least "very well". However, people that speak Spanish make up only 22% of the people that speak a foreign language at home. 48% of people that speak a different language speak an Asian or Pacific Islander language, 16% speak other Indo-Europeans. So, sure there are a number of Spanish speakers, but they are far outnumbered by people that speak an Asian or Pacific Islander language (48%), or the people that speak other languages (30%). Most of the people in the county live in the suburbs where the Spanish speaking goes way down...I would hardly call Spanish the second language... You would probably do well to learn Chinese. In Boise, Idaho, only 0.04% of the population speaks English "less than very well". Only a very small percentage speaks a language besides English at home. In Portland, OR, only 37% of the people that speak other languages at home are Spanish speakers. Over 80% speak only English at home. In Eugene, OR, over 85% speak English only at home. And less than 1% speak English less than well.

>> but one is never far from the thousands of radio, TV, and internet press in Spanish. <<

But one is never far away from the thousands of internet press, etc. in practally any language.

>> What people seem to so easily forget is that most US territory was under Spanish, not English jurisdiction, for centuries. <<

Most??

>> If you are an expat in Paris and choose not to learn French, you will still learn it sublimely due to its presence around you. <<

Yes, but if you're an expat in Cheyenne, WY, you certainly are not going to learn Spanish "due to its presence around you". Even somewhere like Portland, you're not going to learn Spanish due to its "presence" around you.

>> When you go to Wal Mart, McDonalds, a bank, and see all material printed in two languages, you begin to realize that you live in a bilingual country <<

Most material around here is available in English and Chinese. Not English and Spanish. Voting material is available all over the place in English and Chinese. Garbage cans are labeled in English, Chinese, Korean, and French. You'll see more Korean shops than you will find Spanish. I've met more people from Sweden than I've met from Mexico.