Countries in the UK

Josh Lalonde   Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:46 pm GMT
It's my understanding that England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland are officially called 'Constituent Countries' of the UK, but I was wondering about common usage. If a Londoner says "He's the best striker in the country," does he most likely mean England or the UK? Is it different in the other countries?
Benjamin   Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:21 pm GMT
Basically, the distinction between 'England' and 'the UK' is generally seen a more significant in the other constituent countries than in England — because over 80% of the UK's population live in England. So, if someone from Scotland, for example, talks about 'their country', then they most probably mean Scotland, whilst if someone from England says the same, they could mean either.
viri amaoro   Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:44 pm GMT
Don't forget Sealand. Is it part of the UK or not?
Benjamin   Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:12 pm GMT
« Is it part of the UK or not? »

LOL — the owners claim it's not, and I must admit that they do have a valid case. The British government doesn't recognise the independence of Sealand, but it seems to be kind of 'tolerated' these days.

Then there are also the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories, which are not technically part of the UK, but aren't fully independent from the UK either.
Teacher   Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:28 pm GMT
Countries in UK: Cornwall, Buckingham Palace, East London, West London, East Anglia, Northern England, Wales, Nessyland, Scotland, Pictland,Highlands and Pro Ireland
Pub Lunch   Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:13 pm GMT
Geezer, if a Londoner says he is the best 'forward' in the country then he is ONLY talking about ENGLAND, because quite simply my friend Scottish, Welsh and Irish footie are absolute ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When talking about nationality and what not then things do get a little muddier. Most English, incredibly, do see themselves as 'British' whereas the majority of Scots see themselves as Scottish and the majority of Welsh are ..erm... Welsh.

England definitely has an identity crisis mate, quite simply Paddy's day is celebrated more than St Georges day, even here!!!!! We are made to feel as if it is wrong to celebrate 'OUR' own national day yet the Celts can somehow celebrate 'theirs' with impunity.

To be English is to be a Fred Perry, red brace wearing, DM boot stomping skinhead racist that we just 'don't' mention. It seems to be UN PC to be English but perversely enough OK to be a Welsh or a Scot (if you want to acknowledge the 'UK' then Northern Irish as well).

In very simple terms, when the world thinks of Britain (or the 'UK') they do think of England, so therefore the Celts quite rightly feel the need to express there identity - to shout their voices louder so to speak. But the English are starting to realise this and are starting to break away from this Britishness (that incredibly a 'Scot' is now trying to promote - ha ha ha!!!) and are starting to demand some sort of identity of their own. But due to this PC age, being English is a hard fought thing.

I can only give you this example, as a SERIOUS boxing fan I have travelled our green and pleasant land with our flag (the Union Jack), and 'only' in Wales and Scotland have I been made to feel the most uncomfortable when waving it. No Englishman has ever told me to stop waving 'that' flag but many Welsh and Scots have told me 'otherwise' (watch any Taff or Jock sportsman and 'observe' their national flag and then watch an English sportsman 'still' carry the 'Union' flag).

Consequently I 'only' wave the St George's flag now.

I wish Britain could be, well Britain, I wish we all could be 'British', but witnessing other national pride has made me (and others) think otherwise.

For the record, the contributions of the Celtic lands (especially Scotland) made Britain great. But the fact is we all want our 'own' identity now.

I am English and proud of it bruv (but I love my Celtic brothers all the same).

In summary geezer...... Yes the English view themselves as British whereas in my experience the Jocks, Taff’s and Paddies do not. But this is changing due to the Celts strong sense of nationalism and the English realisation of this. We have an identity and we should be proud of it, the PC brigade would have us believe otherwise however.

Britain seems to be splitting up - sadly.

Okay it has just turned 12 and it now my Birthday - adious!!!!!!!!!
Benjamin   Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:53 pm GMT
I'll just say that I don't agree with how Pub Lunch has called people from Scotland and Wales 'the Celts'.
Uriel   Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:02 am GMT
Happy birthday, PL!
Liz   Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:26 am GMT
Happy birthday, Pub Lunch!!!

Here's a little present for you:

Look at the lowest picture on the left and click on it to make it larger. The inscription means "We wish you a happy birthday!". They wish wish you a happy birthday - aren't they unutterably cute? :-)

PS: I hate the word "cute" because it's so much overused in an Essex Girl or Valley Girl style, but those animals in the picture are really SOOO CUTE!!! :-)

PS 2: Sorry for being off-topic again.
Pub Lunch   Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:39 am GMT
Nice one Uriel and Liz!!!

And thankyou cute little German speaking racoons!!!

Sadly I have an exam in about 3 hours so not much joy at the moment :(

Benjamin, to refer to Wales, Scotland and Ireland as the 'Celtic' nations or the inhabitants as 'Celts' has never struck me as being offensive. I assure you mate no offence was intended at all. It just saved me writing out the country names each time!!! Plus my very good Welsh friend always refers to these countries as celtic nations and his 'celtic' brothers so I assumed it was kosher. Same as using the monikers such as Taffs and Jocks and the names 'you lot' have for us - it's all just banter.

Anyway I'd been on the sauce all day yesterday so it was probably not one of my better posts.

Liz   Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:53 am GMT
<<And thankyou cute little German speaking racoons!!!>>

Hmmm...Hungarian speaking're being *slightly* off-beam here. Never mind, those who are having or recently have had a birthday must be forgiven...under normal circumstances they shouldn't. :-)))

My pleasure, anyway...So thank you for saying thank you! :-)
Liz   Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:55 am GMT
Have you passed your exam, Pub Lunch? Good luck anyway! :-)
Brit   Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:58 pm GMT
aww nobody wants to be in my gang anymore...

Ok, have it your way celts but you'll have to put up with more of my monotonous "singin". In-ger-land, In-ger-land, In-ger-land...

Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:24 pm GMT
Small extract from a thread on the CELTIC FRINGE:

<<<<The Celtic-fringe nations of Scotland, Wales and Ireland took on board the whole panoply of cultural nationalism. In Scotland, it was loyalist and done under royal patronage. George IV, his kilt riding up over his flesh-coloured tights, presided over Sir Walter Scott's tartan pageant in 1821, while Victoria built Balmoral and cosied up to John Brown. In Ireland, the Gaelic revival fed directly into anti-British nationalism.

The English took a different route. ***<------ Ha! Don't they always?.....*** Instead of cultural icons, they revered their political institutions, such as parliament and common law. And they thought them the best in the world. In so far as they had national symbols, they were the crown and the Church of England, with its Shinto-like worship of the royal family.....>>> ***<-----Ha! I like that bit! The Church of England - the Tory Party at prayer....***

So....the Celtic Fringe of Britain.....basically the northern and western extremities of the British Isles....Scotland, Wales and Ireland. That is so clear cut and needs no definition really. England is in effect quiet alien to the rest of us in a lot of ways but the harsh reality is that they are very much the majority members of this United Kingdom of ours, but I believe we have to grin and bear it and live with the Sassenachs. We Scots generally look upon the English in a sort of love/hate relationship....and that doesn't at all mean that we love to hate them...they are...well, different. We tend to think they think they are superior to us lesser mortals out here on the Celtic fringes and it seems that our Welsh brethren think on similar lines.

Anyway, whetever our basic differences I think it's great to have such amazing diversity on one (comparatively) small island---the entire UK is smaller in area than a good many individual American States - some are almost three times our land area size. Whereas those individual American States are much of a muchness from top to bottom and from left to right, in culture, character and people, the British Isles is a lot more of a mixture of all sorts - including three very individual countries - and even within our different countries and regions are all sorts of accents, landscapes and cultural backgrounds. This is now even more complex because of the huge immigration influx. Pretty soon we will all be fluent in Polish. I haven't clue where to start there...the only word I know in Polish is their word for a mayfly. That won't get me far and don't even ask how I got to know that word.

I really like the Poles.....I think I've mentioned that before.....some of them are
Adam   Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:19 pm GMT
"If a Londoner says "He's the best striker in the country," does he most likely mean England or the UK?"

Who knows? Even the British wouldn't. He could mean England or he could mean the UK. I suppose most of us would just say he's talking about both England AND the UK.

Really, when the British talk about "the country" it should mean the UK, as that's the actual country, but not all Brits feel British. They only feel English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern irish.