verb tenses problems

Kipper   Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:37 pm GMT
These sentences are taken from a novel. My questions are in the brackets:


1. She SAW Nancy COME into the restaurant.
(why not CAME is used?)

2. He SAW Tom SMILE at Lisa from across the room.
(why not SMILED is used?)
furrykef   Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:00 pm GMT
"Come" and "smile" in those sentences are infinitives. The infinitive -- specifically, the "bare" infinitive, without "to" -- is used after verbs of perception.

You can, however, use the past tense if you put the second verb into a subordinate clause:

1. She saw that Nancy came into the restaurant.
2. He saw that Tom smiled at Lisa from across the room.

There is a subtle difference in meaning, though, with an emphasis on the action (of coming/smiling) having been completed.

- Kef
Humble   Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:46 pm GMT
I hope Kef doesn't mind if I add a little.
This grammar pattern is called Complex Object.

I saw Nancy. - Nancy is an object.
I saw Nancy smile. - "Nancy smile" is a complex object.

Participles are also used after verbs of perception.

How could I dance with another
When I saw her standing there.
Guest   Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:57 pm GMT
1. She SAW Nancy COME into the restaurant.
(why not CAME is used?)

2. He SAW Tom SMILE at Lisa from across the room.
(why not SMILED is used?)


I guess you could use the gerund too
(She saw Nancy coming...
He saw Tom smiling...)
Davidab   Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:27 pm GMT
In each clause of a sentence only one verb, the first one, should be conjugated, that is, marked for tense, person or number. They can change according to who, when, or how many. Following verbs, non-finite forms, are not conjugated, that is, they do not vary according to who, when, or how many and can be: the bare infinitive, the to-infinitive, the past participle, and the -ing form (present participle or gerund).

The most important rule to remember is: never put a verb in simple present form or in simple past form after another verb in the same clause

He goes
He doesn't go (not he doesn't goes)

goes: conjugated
does: conjugated
go: bare infinitive, not conjugated


I went
I didn't go (not I didn't went)

went: conjugated
did: conjugated
go: bare infinitive, not conjugated


I am working
He is working
They were working

am, is, were: conjugated
working: present participle, not conjugated

I enjoy working
he enjoys working
they enjoyed working

enjoy: conjugated
working: gerund, not conjugated

I advise her to start again
she advises me to start again
We advised them to start again

advise: conjugated
to start: to infinitive, not conjugated

You will need
they would need

will/would: conjugated
need: bare infinitive, not conjugated

You have gone
it has gone
They had gone

have: conjugated
gone: past participle, not conjugated


Two clause sentence:

I noticed that she was waiting

first clause

I noticed
notice: conjugated

that: conjunction

second clause

She was waiting

was: conjugated
waiting: not conjugated
Jérémy   Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:26 pm GMT
The subordinate clause in that type of construction (I saw NANCY COME, I heard THE BABY CRYING...) is also called a "small clause" in grammar/linguistics books.
Rodrigo (COL)   Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:47 pm GMT
I would answer, simplifying (maybe incorrectly) what is said above, that they are in the present tense because the other verbs are already in the past tense. It's like when using do and didn't 'She didn't COME' instead of CAME, using both in the past tense is a very common mistake made by people whose first language is Spanish.


PS. Is there a shorter way to say 'people whose first language is Spanish'?
Travis   Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:20 pm GMT
>>PS. Is there a shorter way to say 'people whose first language is Spanish'?<<

The normal way that one'd put this in English is simply "native Spanish-speakers". The only difference between this and what you said is that one can be native in more than one language, while "first language" normally means the very first language that one learned.
Davidab   Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:55 am GMT
"I would answer, simplifying (maybe incorrectly) what is said above, that they are in the present tense because the other verbs are already in the past tense. It's like when using do and didn't 'She didn't COME' instead of CAME, using both in the past tense is a very common mistake made by people whose first language is Spanish. "

Rodrigo,

A verb that is a complement/object of another verb is never in present tense or past tense. 'Come' in 'She didn't COME' above is the infinitive without to not in present tense. Only the first verb of a clause is ever marked for tense eg 'did' above. The same thing happens in Spanish:

comer
'yo como' (present tense)
'yo quiero comer' (infinitive) not yo quiero como (present tense)

Learners confuse present tense with the bare infinitive because they look the same except in third person singular 'he comes' or in the verb 'be' 'am', 'is', 'are'. How you use the verb 'be' is a good way of knowing if you are using simple present or infinitive.

the verb 'do' is always followed by infinitive without to. eg: negative imperatives:
'don't come now'
'don't be late' not 'don't are late'

after modals
'I will come'
'I will be' not 'I will am'

And for the sentences that started this thread

She SAW Nancy COME
'She saw Nancy be' not 'she saw Nancy is'

He SAW Tom SMILE
'He saw Tom be' not 'He saw Tom is'