Is Italian grammar more complicated than Spanish grammar?

litalofilo   Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:17 am GMT
I know that Italian seems very similar to Spanish apparently, but, Is Italian grammar really more complicated than Spanish grammar? Thanks!
OïL   Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:26 am GMT
Non.
Les 2 grammaires sont presque complètement parallèles.

Une différence est que l'it. emploie l'auxiliaire 'essere' avec certains verbes (un peu comme le français).
Inversement, l'esp. comporte l'usage subtil de 'a' devant certains compléments.

Et puis, en it. les règles de contraction des prépositions + articles (del, dello, della, dei, degli, delle, al, ai, allo, agli etc.) sont un peu plus complexes mais très régulières, rien de dramatique.

Disons que l'it. est 1/1000 plus compliqué que l'esp.
Rodrigo   Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:55 pm GMT
An aspect about Italian grammar that's a bit more complicated than Spanish grammar are plurals. Although Italian rules are fairly straight forward, there are some irregularities. In Spanish there are only two plurals, -s and -es and a few words that are kept the same. In the whole article about plurals in the RAE's Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas there is only one word with an irregular plural, "hipérbaton" whose plural is "hipérbatos". Hipérbaton is a literary figure that won't come up in conversational speak until you're discussing poetry or advanced literature.
While in Italian there are more irregularities and the differentiation between words that end in -e and in -io when creating the plural is hard to understand. Nontheless, standard Spanish grammar may be 1/1000 harder than Italian but Italian wins that thousandth in dialectal consistency.


NOTE: Words with the accent in the antepenultimate syllable that end in a consonant are kept the same in the plural.
Roby_k   Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:48 pm GMT
Italian grammar is a little bit harder, especially with pronouns and verbs...
Spanish rules are easier and more intuitive.
Sergio   Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:03 pm GMT
Hi Italofilo,

One more degree of difficulty of Italian over Spanish: the 'ne' and 'ci' pronominal adverbs. They completely lack in Spanish, and they aren't intuitive at all.
Nonetheless, that shouldn't mean that they are terribly difficult to learn either.
Guest   Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:41 pm GMT
Does Italian have something similar to the 100's of 2-way and 3-way stem-changing verbs in Spanish? (example jugar, dormir)
guest   Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:02 pm GMT
Hi Italofilo,

One more degree of difficulty of Italian over Spanish: the 'ne' and 'ci' pronominal adverbs. They completely lack in Spanish, and they aren't intuitive at all.
Nonetheless, that shouldn't mean that they are terribly difficult to learn either.>>>>>>>

Se is undoubtedly the most versatile of the Spanish pronouns. As you learn Spanish, you will come across se used in a variety of ways. For the beginner, it isn't necessary to learn all those ways, although it can be helpful to be introduced to its various uses to help avoid confusion when you see it used in a way you haven't studied yet.
spanish has litle words too like the word "se" whinch can mean a lot of things like: as a reflexive pronoun such as llamarSE as in; ella se llama!
it can mean itself, herself, himself, themselves or just " it is or is" as in SE HABLA ESPANO;, spanish is spoken here.
as an impersonal pronoun
e maneja rápidamente en Lima. (People drive fast in Lima.) Se puede encontrar cocos en el mercado. (You can find coconuts in the market.) Muchas veces se tiene que estudiar para aprender. (Often you have to study to learn.) No se debe comer con prisa. (One ought not to eat quickly.)
and something else: Se shouldn't be confused with sé (note the accent mark), which is usually the singular first-person present indicative form of saber ("to know"). Thus sé usually means "I know." Sé can also be the singular familiar imperative form of ser; in that case it means "you be."
OïL   Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:24 pm GMT
"Se is undoubtedly the most versatile of the Spanish pronouns. As you learn Spanish, you will come across se used in a variety of ways."

— Ce n'est pas spécifiquement espagnol. Le "si" italien a exactement la même fonction, et s'emploie dans les mêmes situations:

Esp.: "Se maneja rápidamente en Lima."
It.: "Si guida rapidamente a Lima"

Esp.: "No se debe comer con prisa"
It.: "Non si deve mangiare con fretta"

Esp.: "Se puede encontrar cocos en el mercado."
It.: "Si possono incontrare noci di coco nel mercato"

(Dans le dernier exemple, noter cependant une différence: 'puede' reste au singulier tandis que 'possono' est pluriel)
Guest   Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:14 am GMT
Esp.: rápidamente / de prisa / velozmente / a prisa
It.: rapidamente / velocemente / in fretta
Mex-Esp.: en friega / en jódisa / en freguísa / rápidamente / rápido / de prisa / a prisa / velozmente

(i.e. ¡Va en friega! ¡Va en freguisa! ¡Va en jódisa! etc.)
Guest   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:10 am GMT
"Mex-Esp.: en friega / en jódisa / en freguísa / rápidamente / rápido / de prisa / a prisa / velozmente "

lol, only really poor Mexicans would say those words, (like the ones in the States), to any Mexican the first three words would be considered really vulgar, like black english (with all due respect.)
Franco   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:26 am GMT
No fui yo él que dejó el mensaje arriba. Alguien está tratando de engañarlos.
Guest   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:28 am GMT
Franco, there might be more than one Franco in the world. You are so self-centered.
K. T.   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:28 am GMT
Was it Ocnarf?
Franco   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:30 am GMT
No sé quién lo escribió, pero no importa, es obvio que es un tipo tonto porque cree que el italiano es un dialecto de la gran lengua española.
Guest   Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:31 am GMT
I think it might be .T.K :O