How come Finnish and Hungarian are not Indo-European?

avail   Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:00 pm GMT
Finland and Hungary are located in Europe and they are both members of European Union.
Plus, the Finnish people and Hungarian people totally look like Europeans(Caucasians/White or whatever you call).

How come their languages are not even Indo-European languages?
Either geographically or ethnically, Finland and Hungary are closer to Europe than Persia or India.
How is that possible?
Guest   Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:07 pm GMT
Language does not necessarily relates to ethnicity. Mexicans speak an Indoeuropean language an they are mainly native American, while on the other hand, as you well said, the Finnish and Hungarian speak a non Indoeuropean language but their genetic stock is European, Caucasian, White, or whatever term you want to use.
Guest   Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:17 pm GMT
Yes but Mexicans speak Spanish because the Spanish settled there. Is there a similar explantion for the Finnish and Hungarians?
OïL   Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:56 pm GMT
- The Finns (as well as the Sami and Esthonians) and the Magyars (Hungarians) are related to aborigine nations of Western Siberia, and probably came from there.

They occupied (peacefully or not) their current locations about 2,500 years ago. They imposed their languages on the local populations, but it was not a one-way process. Actually a large part of Northern Russia was formerly made of Finns who underwent slavisation/russification in the course of time.

Similar story for Hungary: the Magyars were a tribe of warriors from beyond the Ural, just like the Huns before them, they spread fear and disaster throughout Western Europe twelve centuries ago, they were ultimately beaten but resisted in their own stronghold, a kingdom they built in the heart of Europe, and have remained there ever since.

Keep in mind that those warrior tribes enlisted most of their members in the provinces they "visited". It was common practice in those dark ages, abd a prerequisite for a successful invasion. When the Carthaginians were threatening Rome, their troops were mainly made of Iberians and Celts of Southern Gaul and Northern Italy they had picked up on their way. Only the leadership was Punic.

Jules Caesar used the same technique to conqueer Gaul and Britain (basically not a single drop of genuine Roman blood was used for that, officers were recently romanized Celts of North-Western Italy, common foot soldiers were Celtic and Germanic soldiers recruited on the spot). Most of the Huns consisted actually of Germans who joined the invaders just to get their share of the plundering.

So, it is in no way surprising that Hungarians, Esthonians and Finns are almost undistinguishable from the surrounding peoples.
olaszinho   Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:32 pm GMT
Nagyon szeretem a magyar nyelvet! Magyar nagyon szép nyelv! :-)
I like the hungarian language a lot! Hungarian is a beautiful language!
Yukkehiselle Turkkassa   Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:57 am GMT
Just like Turkish people have come from Sibiria to Turkiye. Turkish people in Turkiye speak a language closely related to Hungarian and Finnish grammatically. The three aren't mutually intelligible but they are in the same groupe of language. People think that after a few centuries Turkish people will get much blonder because of their high interaction with Europeans and Russians as Turkish people have lost their eye shape which had resembled Yakut Turks and Chinese ones.
Guest   Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:26 am GMT
How come people always ask questions they can easily find the answer in wikipedia or wherever? How come people seem to know what "Indo-European" is, but don't know what it means?
How is that possible??
Your Mom   Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:17 am GMT
«For example, the Finns and Lapps seem to have occupied...»

You mean the Finns and the Sami.
Ouest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:17 am GMT
Are the culture of Hungarian and Finnish and Basque very different from the culture of their neighbours because of speaking a non-IE language?
Guest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:30 am GMT
Yes, they are. Many anthropologists think that Basque culture is related to Berber culture in Atlas Mountains. There are biological evidences too which support the connection between both peoples such as a notably high incidence of negative rhesus.
guest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm GMT
I still see some "asiatic" look to Hungarians and more-so to Turks.

Take for instance the Gabor sisters (Zsa Zsa [Zha Zha] & Eva) of Magyar descent. My mother is full-blooded Korean, and if you dye my mother's hair blonde, she would pass as a dead-ringer for one of them: all three have the same facial/bone structure, etc.

The Saami are also very asiatic looking, especially those whose recent parents/grandparents have intermarried with Scandinavians [high cheeckbones, straight often dark hair of the mongoloid type, almond-shaped/oblique eyes]

Even my pastor, who is of Norwegian descent, I can clearly see in him definite mongolian traits, especially in his facial structure and hair.
guest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:43 pm GMT
<<The same with the Hungarians. However, modern linguistic research indicates that the Hungarian language is indeed distantly related to Manchurian, Korean and Japanese. An Indo-European relationship to these languages can't be ruled out either but it would be even more distant. >>

Brennus, it's funny that you've mentioned this. I have noticed that many words in Korean are very similar to basic words in IE.

For instance, the Korean word for 'mosquito' is 'mogi', very close to German 'Muecke' (mosquito) and English 'midge' (small fly). I believe the IE root is *mugi.

Also, the word for horse in Korean is 'mal'/'mar' which echoes the English word 'mare'. Others are: 'Abo(ji)'/'Abba' - father/daddy; 'omoni'/'omma' - mother/mommy; 'hana' - one; 'tul'/tu' - two; 'kae' - dog (canine); 'goi' - goose; '(tan)-mil' - honey ['tan' = 'sweet']; etc...

If these are not related, they are definite borrowings due to early contact (Koreans also originate from Central Asia moving south-eastward). Perhaps they are Tocharian loanwords eh? I have known many Koreans who have naturally light brown, almost dirty blond, hair and light colored eyes (hazel/green).

If I compare Korea words to Magyar, I find more "cognates (?)" like: 'net/nes' - four; 'nuna, onni' - sister; etc.
guest   Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:46 pm GMT

another word in Korean is 'kul', which means a cave/hole, and it appears to be related to 'hole'?
guest   Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:37 pm GMT
Brennus, Thank you.

I indeed have heard of Nostratic, however, personally I have my doubts about it...

I prefer to think that words like 'bul','pur' (fire), and 'iss[o]' (to be) are more likely borrowings.

Several Scythian artifacts have been unearthed in Korea...were the Scythians speakers of IE?
TMJ   Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:04 pm GMT
<<Korean nai, "yes." >>

Korean word "yes" is "ye"

"ne" which I believe you may refer means "right"/"correct"