The Sound of Cot/Caught

Guest   Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:05 am GMT
What do cot-caught mergered people sound like to people without the merger? Do they sound funny, or is the difference not noticed because the vowel is pronounced midway between "ah" "aw", and the fact that "ah" and "aw" sound so similar in the words "cot" and "caught".
Mxsmanic   Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:29 am GMT
Nobody notices anything except linguists.

ESL/EFL students need to concentrate on correcting the gross errors in their pronunciation, the ones that mark them as non-native speakers. Things like cot/caught mergers dwindle to insignificance in comparison (in fact, they aren't even noticed by native speakers, unless they are linguists). It's always a bit bizarre to see ESL/EFL students worrying about the merger of these two vowels when they can't pronounce either of them correctly to begin with.
Kirk   Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:36 am GMT
<<ESL/EFL students need to concentrate on correcting the gross errors in their pronunciation, the ones that mark them as non-native speakers. Things like cot/caught mergers dwindle to insignificance in comparison (in fact, they aren't even noticed by native speakers, unless they are linguists). It's always a bit bizarre to see ESL/EFL students worrying about the merger of these two vowels when they can't pronounce either of them correctly to begin with.>>

I wouldn't say *only* linguists notice that phenomenon, and you're right that (especially lower-level) ESL/EFL students shouldn't worry about such mergers when they can't pronounce the appropriate vowels right anyway. However, more advanced students might do well to know that some dialects merge them, especially if they plan on potentially dealing with merged people, so they can at least understand it, even if they don't do it themselves.
Travis   Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:18 am GMT
>>Nobody notices anything except linguists.<<

I definitely notice it, even when I'm not listening for it, and I did notice it before I got interested in linguistics-related topics.

>>ESL/EFL students need to concentrate on correcting the gross errors in their pronunciation, the ones that mark them as non-native speakers. Things like cot/caught mergers dwindle to insignificance in comparison (in fact, they aren't even noticed by native speakers, unless they are linguists).<<

Depends on where you are... at least here, being cot-caught-merged is a clear noticable sign of "not being from here".

>>It's always a bit bizarre to see ESL/EFL students worrying about the merger of these two vowels when they can't pronounce either of them correctly to begin with. <<

The thing though is that it is something that still should be known about, even if it is just to help understand other native English-speakers who are speaking a version of English which is opposite, with respect to such, what the non-native speaker's version is.
Kirk   Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:05 am GMT
<<I definitely notice it, even when I'm not listening for it, and I did notice it before I got interested in linguistics-related topics.>>

Of course some would say you already had an inclination towards that kind of stuff even before you knew much about it :)

<<The thing though is that it is something that still should be known about, even if it is just to help understand other native English-speakers who are speaking a version of English which is opposite, with respect to such, what the non-native speaker's version is.>>

Right. Just like Spanish learners should at sometime be taught that some dialects have a "valla/vaya" merger (or the opposite, be taught that some don't!) and some have a "taza/tasa" merger (same thing again, or that some don't have that merger), mergers as widespread as "cot-caught" in English should at least be mentioned somewhere along the line, even if the speakers don't modify their speech.

ESL/EFL students do often pick up on these vowel differences. I'm a parttime conversation leader at an English language institute and today the main teacher was gone, and we had a substitute. This was fine, but the main teacher is originally Australian and the sub was an American, so the students are used to hearing an Australian accent from the teacher. Thus, I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that when one the sub said "hot," I noticed one of the students writing down the word as "heart." I had to explain to the student that the American teacher's pronunciation "hot" was quite similar (enough to be confusing for a nonnative student tho they're technically not the same of course) to the Australian teacher's pronunciation of "heart." My point? Students pick up on these things and at least educating them a bit on these phenomena will help with their comprehension and broaden their familiarity with the different kinds of accents many will inevitably encounter.
nick   Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:39 pm GMT
so can anyone speak those two words differently and put them online, I live in New England Area, so that's same to me, you can upload them at www.putfile.com, thanx