Singular or Plural

guest   Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:24 pm GMT
I do not know whether this question has ever been asked before; I have never seen it, and honestly would like to know.

My question: When referring to a singular noun made up of more than one individual, like 'family' or '(musical) band', I have always used the singular form of the verb. For instance, 'The family has just arrived at the hospital', and 'The band is currently on tour'. Yet, I hear increasingly in the media, especially (but not limited to) the British media, the use of the plural verb: 'The family have just arrived at hospital' and 'The band are currently on tour'.

I understand where this might stem from--'The family [members] have just arrived', and 'The band [members] are currently on tour, but to me, unless the word "members" is there, it defaults to singular--"family" and "band" are singular nouns.

Please, what gives? Is this a new trend that will eventually become standard, or is it correct usage now?
Guest   Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:11 pm GMT
This seems to be something seen outside the US. For example:

US: Canon has just announced the new 450D camera.
UK: Canon have just announced the new 450D camera.

I'm not sure how they say this in CAN, AUS, NZ, etc.

Perhaps we're seeing the beginning of a slow long-term trend to get rid of the third-person singular ending entirely?
guest   Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:24 pm GMT
<<Perhaps we're seeing the beginning of a slow long-term trend to get rid of the third-person singular ending entirely? >>

Well, I doubt seriously that this is a deliberate attempt toward that end, but it might inadvertently assist in pointing us toward that direction.

It would certainly take much more, however, I think to actually get us moving that way. The above incidents are rather isolated and only occur with these "plural"-type nouns.
Humble   Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:42 am GMT
This is a FA grammar Q. You can find it explained in Michael Swan's Practical English Usage, page 519 (groups of people).
If you have no access to it, I could quote the main stuff.

Straying off:
I have never seen or heard "Please, what gives?" Intrigued. What does it mean? If the asker's English were bad, I'd consider it a sort of calque from his native language.
Lazar   Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:54 am GMT
<<I have never seen or heard "Please, what gives?" Intrigued. What does it mean? If the asker's English were bad, I'd consider it a sort of calque from his native language.>>

I'm quite familiar with the expression "What gives?" - it's definitely a native English idiom. It means something like, "What's going on?" or "What's the explanation?"
guest   Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:49 pm GMT
<<I'm quite familiar with the expression "What gives?" - it's definitely a native English idiom. It means something like, "What's going on?" or "What's the explanation?" >>

Hi, yes, as stated above.
It's a straight-forward, down-to-earth, no nonsense type of expression meaning "Hey! What's the deal here?", "What is this?"
Humble   Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:35 am GMT
Thanks, guys.