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Spelling Reform Thread
I've been noticing that Willy has been trying to change every thread into a spelling reform thread so I've started a thread about spelling reform. If you have anything to say about spelling reform post it here in this thread. Willy, post all of your spelling reform stuff in this thread and don't change all the other threads into threads about spelling reform.
Once again, If you have anything to say about spelling reform post it here.
I've got a spelling reform proposal.
Consonants
b-bag
ch-chin
d-dog
f-free
g-get
h-height
j-jet
k-kite, cat.
l-lick
m-might
n-night
ng-sing
p-plane
q-not used
r-rust
s-stove
sh-ship
t-tiger
th-think
v-vehicle
w-wing
x-then, that, this
y-yes
z-zag
zh-vision
Short vowels
a-short vowel sound in cat, mat, bag.
e-short vowel sound in bed, egg, ten, dead, get, many.
i-short vowel sound in bid, bit, pit, hint, fish.
o-short vowel sound in cot, hot, dot, wash, caught, father, moth, cost
u-short vowel sound in cut, hut, hug, son, ton, honey, money.
uu-wood, should, could
Name saying vowels
ae-day, plate, late, skate, eight
ee-street, feet, read
ie-light, spy, write
oe-boat, know, flow, ghost, coast
ue-mute, beautiful
Other sounds
Oi- boy, toy, coin, join.
oo-two, who, tutu, suit, super, moon.
ou-cow, how, wow, brown, mount.
R-vowel sounds
ar-car, start, cart
er-care, hair, marry, very, wear, berry
ir-hear, mirror, beer, tear
or-core, for, storm, wore
ur-burn, hurt, herd, bird, turn, better
Wut doo ue think ubout mie prupoezul? I've seen a proposal on another thread made by someone that went by the name ''Loch'' on this thread http://p081.ezboard.com/feuropa2frm40.showMessage?topicID=44.topic . My proposal is much better than that one proposed by Loch in that other forum. Isn't this proposal much better than Loch's?
Is my proposal better than Loch's or is Loch's proposal better than mine and why?
Yeah, I think your proposal is better than Loch's.
Inglish Respeling: The way you wrote your name could disgust Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, so be careful.
Your proposal isn't better than Loch's, but it's A LOT simpler! I went berserk for a while when I read it.
When you read mine or Loch's.
My idea ... well actually I got it from J.R.R. Tolkein but ... this idea I'm using is to use "dh" for /TH/ (as in "then", "that", "this", etc.) It's a bit of an odd way of respelling things but, in my humble opinion, it's a damn sight better than using "x". Of course, "dhen", "dhat", "dhis", etc. are going to throw some people but I think they are more readable than "xen", "xat", "xis", etc. On the other hand, using "x" saves paper ... why then not use "q" for /th/ (as in "think", "thing", "thigh", etc.)?
My idea ... well actually I got it from J.R.R. Tolkein but ... this idea I'm using is to use "dh" for /TH/ (as in "then", "that", "this", etc.) It's a bit of an odd way of respelling things but, in my humble opinion, it's a damn sight better than using "x". Of course, "dhen", "dhat", "dhis", etc. are going to throw some people but I think they are more readable than "xen", "xat", "xis", etc. On the other hand, using "x" saves paper ... why then not use "q" for /th/ (as in "think", "thing", "thigh", etc.)?
Well, maybe ''dh'' is better than ''x''. using ''x'' makes a bunch of really common words shorter. Of course, then you're right, Why not use ''q'' for [th]?
Well, Jim, Is my proposal better than Loch's or is Loch's proposal better than mine and why?
Jim, Isn't my proposal much better than Loch's though? If not why?
When I read Loch's proporsal, of course!
Well, This is my proposal. What do you think about my proposal.
Dieylekt-spel
Vowels
a-cat
aa-father
ae-yeah
ai-[ei]-maid, eight, days, say
au-claw
e-get
ea-idea
ee-speed
ei-[A]-made, ate, days, pane
eo-[E]-tenner [as some Northern Irish distinguish it from ''tenor'' by using a longer vowel].
eu-spew
ey-happy, money
i-sit
ie-sight
o-cot
oa-[O]-toe, sole, groan, nose
oe-[Ou]-tow, soul, grown, nose
oi-boil
oo-moon
ou-mount
u-mug, cup
uu-could
y-schwa sound
Also,
ua-hors doeuvre
ue-Cluny lace
ui-guidwillie
R-vowel sounds
ar-car
er-herd
ir-bird, dirt
or-cord, sword
ur-burn, fur
yr-better, burner
oar-[Or]-more, boar, pore, oar, store
oer-[Our]-four, court, pour
air-[e..(r)] vs. [eir] stairs, their, heir, hair, air
eir-[e..(r)]vs. [eir] vs. [Ar] stare, care, hare, scare, there
eer-[i..(r)] steer, gear, hear, tear, pier
oor-tour
uer-cure
Consonants
bdfghjklmnprstvwyz-use unchanged
consonant diagrams
ch-chime, chair
dd-tied, kneed, tried, allowed, stayed
dh-their, that, father
ng-sing, sting
nk-stink
sh-shine, fish
th-think
wh-when, where
zh-beigh
Also,
kh-loch
lh-Welsh voiceless ''l''-Llwyd
rh-rouge ''voiced uvular fricative''. ''The parisian French pronunciation of the word''
hh-[?]-Hawai'ian becomes ''Hywiehhyn''
nn-grand prix
bh-Cuba-'''Spanish pronunciation of the name, different to [b] and [v].'' [ku:Ba:] ''voiced bilabial fricative''.
ll-belle ''Light ''l'' at the end of a syllable''. ''French pronunciation of the word different to ''bell''.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Jim says, ''Use the "ay" or "ey" versions before "a", "e", "i", "o" or "u" or at the end of a word. This also means that I'm going to have to sort out /i(:)/ too.''
So, this is how these words come out in your system,
pea-pe
peas-peez
zoo-zu
zoos-zuuz
Plural of ''e'' becomes ''ee'' and plural of ''u'' becomes ''uu''. You could similarly use ''yy'' for [i(:)] before a consonant. And then you'd get,
cookie-cooky
cookies-cookyyz
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''Another think is what if you make both the /O/ vs. /Ou/ distinction and the /o:(r)/ vs. /Our/ distinction (perhaps your mum's East Anglian and your dad's Southern Irish)? Logically I guess you'd also end up with /Or/. What this'll give you (unless I've got things mismatched) is:''
for - for
four - foer
fore - foar
''So I'm also adding "oer".
Also, ''pour'' = ''poer'', ''court'' = ''coert'' etc.
Similarly some Scottish and Irish use [eir], [i:r] and [u:r] instead of [e..(r)], [i..(r)] and [u..(r)]. Logically you might end up with [Ar] also,
Words,
eir-[e..(r)] vs. [eir] vs. [Ar] ''stare'', ''care'', ''scare'', ''hare'', ''bare'' etc. would become ''steir'', ''keir'', ''skeir'', ''heir'', ''beir'' etc.
air-[e..(r)] vs. [eir] ''stair'', ''their'', ''heir'', ''hair'', ''fair'' etc. would become ''stair'', ''dhair'', ''air'', ''hair'', ''fair'' etc.
stare-steir
stair-stair
hair-hair
hare-heir
there-their
their-thair
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Also, If you're adding ''oer'' for [Or] then you'll have to spell ''goer'' and ''lower'' some other way, perhaps as ''goaer'' and ''loewer''
Words respelled in my proposal.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
ten-[ten]-''ten''
tenor-[ten..{r}]-''tener''
tenner-[ten..{r}] vs. [tEn..{r}]-''teoner''.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Sentence respelled in my proposal,
''They were going to buy a beige sofa but the other people were going to buy a rouge sofa and they had a tenor and a tenner and they had only four more days left to buy that sofa that those people made and they were doing a lot of shopping at a lot of different stores those days and they were scared and went downstairs to the kitchen.''
Light ''l'' vs. Dark ''l''
Quote-''There are two L sounds in English, one forward in the mouth ("light", for being closer to outside light), one toward the back ("dark"). The light-L, which has a crisper sound for being formed by firm contact of the tongue with the gum ridge, is used at the beginning of a syllable always, and in final position often. The dark-L, which has a hollow sound because the main body of the tongue is pulled back and up toward the roof of the mouth well behind the gum ridge as to form a little cave, is used before a consonant (e.g., "cold") and in final position ("full", "cool"). Dark-L is never properly used at the beginning of a syllable, for it would produce a sound like gargling.''
Samples from the web
(For comparison, here's how these words would sound with very dark /l/s: ''live'', ''play'', ''relate''. http://www.indiana.edu/~hlw/PhonProcess/darkL.wav
(For comparison, here's how these words would sound with very clear /l/s: full, old, silly.) http://www.indiana.edu/~hlw/PhonProcess/clearL.wav
LULL
Lull ''forwards''
http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/lull.wav
''Lull'' said backwards
http://ccms.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/llul.wav
Quote-''You might think that a word spelled lull would sound the same backwards as forwards. But reversing the positions of the clear and dark 'l' makes the word almost unrecognizable.''
Respeling Inglish, Do you think that your proposal is better than mine?
Jim, Do you think that Respeling Inglish's proposal is better than mine?
Inglish Respeling,
Here's one way in which Loch's proposal differes from yours.
TRADITIONAL ORTHOGRAPHY
day, plate, late, skate, eight
LOCH'S SYSTEM
dai, pleit, leit, skeit, ait
YOUR SYSTEM
dae, plaet, laet, skaet, aet
MY SYSTEM
day, pleit, leit, skeit, ait
Loch uses "ei" and "ai" whereas you use "ae". I think that both "ei" and "ai" are a whole lot easier to read than "ae". In my system "ay" and "ey" are also used.
Yours is not the only system to use "ae" but I think this is one of the worst spelling reform suggestions proposed.
Also Loch and I make a distinction that exists in some dialects. No everyone pronounces "eight", "maid", "vain", etc. like "ate", "made", vane", etc.
These and many other distinctions are ignored by your system but made by Loch's. I wouldn't accept a system that ignores distinctions that I make; why expect others to accept one that ignores distinctions that they make?
Another example is the words "herd", "bird" and "turn". Loch leaves them spelt as they are in recognition of Scottish pronunciation. You suggest respelling "herd" and "bird" as "hurd" and "burd". This would not please the Scots.
You don't recognise the "er"s in "better" and "herd" to be any different. You'll find that in fact they are (in most accents if not all). Consider the two words spelt "perfect" (adjective and verb) one is /pe:fekt/) the other /p..fekt/.
''You don't recognise the "er"s in "better" and "herd" to be any different. You'll find that in fact they are (in most accents if not all). Consider the two words spelt "perfect" (adjective and verb) one is /pe:fekt/) the other /p..fekt/.'' "perfect" (adjective) ''stress on the first syllable'' vs. ''perfect'' (verb) ''stress on the second syllable''. So, should I adopt ''Loch's'' odd looking ''yr''?
''Also Loch and I make a distinction that exists in some dialects. No everyone pronounces "eight", "maid", "vain", etc. like "ate", "made", vane", etc.
''These and many other distinctions are ignored by your system but made by Loch's. I wouldn't accept a system that ignores distinctions that I make; why expect others to accept one that ignores distinctions that they make?
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
So, does your system make all the distinctions that Loch's makes and mine leaves out many?
''Another example is the words "herd", "bird" and "turn". Loch leaves them spelt as they are in recognition of Scottish pronunciation. You suggest respelling "herd" and "bird" as "hurd" and "burd". This would not please the Scots.''
They all have the [e:] sound in them. They're the same.
Hi Jim!
You're a pro on what I'm about to ask...
Can you answer that question posed on "two particular vowel sounds of O"?
re: the discussion for symbols for the 2 different sets of "o" sounds
1) "oal", "old", "olt"
2) "ode", "oaf", "own", "ome"
And while you're at it, since your pronunciation is like mine, how would you write up the following sets? (in order to dinstinguish the various "oo"s)
1) "good", "book"
2) "food", "hoot", "loom", "loo"
3) "tool" and other "ool" endings
Some Aussies pronounce 3) like 2) but others pronounce 3) like an elongated 1) vowel.
''You don't recognise the "er"s in "better" and "herd" to be any different. You'll find that in fact they are (in most accents if not all). Consider the two words spelt "perfect" (adjective and verb) one is /pe:fekt/) the other /p..fekt/.'' "perfect" (adjective) ''stress on the first syllable'' vs. ''perfect'' (verb) ''stress on the second syllable''. So, should I adopt ''Loch's'' odd looking ''yr''?
''Also Loch and I make a distinction that exists in some dialects. No everyone pronounces "eight", "maid", "vain", etc. like "ate", "made", vane", etc.
''These and many other distinctions are ignored by your system but made by Loch's. I wouldn't accept a system that ignores distinctions that I make; why expect others to accept one that ignores distinctions that they make?
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
So, does your system make all the distinctions that Loch's makes and mine leaves out many?
''Another example is the words "herd", "bird" and "turn". Loch leaves them spelt as they are in recognition of Scottish pronunciation. You suggest respelling "herd" and "bird" as "hurd" and "burd". This would not please the Scots.''
They all have the [e:] sound in them. They're the same.
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