Andorra

Oooops!! I guess I made a BIG grammatical fault, so there is a misunderstanding between us jordi...it's my own fault sry. Actually i just wanted to say that you have ALREADY spoken with french catalan (since you're a spanish one). But there is no point in getting excited like that.

It's fun to get excited after a long, long, Saturday afternoon Catalan siesta . I can assure you that people from both sides of the border, speaking in Catalan, are only Catalan. We have different Identity Cards, that is true, but we have the same identity. Not too hard to understand, I suppose. Something we don't lose even if there are other Spaniards or French around.

In France the national feeling appeared with the french revolution. In occitania, of course there was an important literature, and Montpellier was one of the most prestigious university all over Europe, but MOST of people (that is to say countrymen) didn't know how to read and write.

I don't agree nor do my history books.

Just a question (plz don't get excited): would you like to live in an independent catalogne or cataluña (sry don't know the catalan word)

Ok, you are re-writting history as we say here!! I'd be very surprised if a serious history book said that most of people were educated at the time!! could you tell me which book maintain that??

You said: "In France the national feeling appeared with the french revolution"

You are re-writing history as we also say here. Everybody knows that most of the population couldn't read or write not so long ago, even as late as the early 20th century. That has got nothing to do with national feelings.
As far as all my rights -that means all the rights a normal national citizen has where ever in the world- I couldn't care less on the kind of government I had as long as I have them. I imagine you must agree that there aren't first and second class nations, first and second class citizens.

¡Dios. ¡Otro de ERC!!!

<< First, regions such as Savoy or Alsace was not annexed by force. They (the people) chose to be french. >>

Habsburg lands in Alsace were handed to France at the conclusion of the Thirty Years War as payment for their military assistance against the Protestant Swedes and the rebellious German princes. The free cities of the Decapolis weren't so keen about French rule until Louis XIV personally paid a "visit" and forced them to submit to French sovereignty. In 1681, Strasbourg fell to French troops and was annexed into the French kingdom. I would say that a great deal of force was definitely used with regards to Alsace.

French troops invaded and occupied Savoy numerous times during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. At the end of the 18th century, Napoleon invaded Savoy and annexed it into the Empire, resulting in bloody riots and revolts by a native population hostile towards French occupation. After a brief period of independence, the Duke of Savoy secretly handed over Savoy to France in exchange for military assistance to conquer and unify Italy. In a referendum in 1860, the Savoyans were given the option of either joining France or Italy. The Savoyans overwhelmingly voted for France. Had the people been given a third alternative – independence – my guess is that the results would've been markedly different.

<< Ok, you are re-writting history as we say here!! >>

In my opinion, it is the (northern) French who have re-written history to make themselves look like the culturally superior civilizing conquerors.

According to Wendy Pfeffer, in her book "Proverbs in Medieval Occitan Literature", literacy in southern France was extremely high compared to other regions of Europe during the early middle ages. It is no wonder then that many of the great medieval poems arose from this region and greatly influenced the literature of other cultures. Many of these troubadour poems happened to be written by women, which should give you some indication of how widespread literacy was in this region. These troubadour men and women were like the rock gods of their time, so their lyrical poems influenced the young men and women of Occitania to learn to read and write poems on their own – just as the Beatles and Bob Dylan influenced their younger fans to pick up a guitar, write music, and follow the same path as their heroes.

Also, Provence and Languedoc's ideal location on the shores of the Mediterranean Sea guaranteed a continuous flow of new thoughts and ideas coming from the Near, Middle, and Far East. It is no coincidence then that all of Medieval Europe's great thinkers taught and studied at the University of Montpellier.

Sadly, this enlightened era of the South came to a crashing end when the French kings and their men swept down and conquered. Ever since then, Southern France has been portrayed as a backwoods series of provinces full of rowdy, rebellious peasants who are too uneducated to rule themselves.

<< Concerning Provence or languedoc, it's different...So people who lived in this region didn't care about who ran their country, wether it was the french king or the count of...toulouse, whatever. they were much more concened by foods... >>

As Jordi mentioned, why then did thousands of people give up their lives fighting the northern French if the southerners didn't care who would rule them?? That doesn't make any sense.

<< Today, southern france is totally...well "french". >>

Of course! Several centuries of indoctrination in "French" customs and values will do that.

it is true that history is writing by the conquerors. In the Gascogne there used to be an expression ironic that was "here we have Auch... en France". Auch was old capital Gascogne and the people think it was strange to have Auch in France. The expression was to mean like "fish out of water".

I was for service militaire in Perpignan and I know that the people there were very proud of France but also very pround of being Catalan. This is normal to be proud of both heritage in the south.

I mean not the well know colaboration leaders but the grand bureaucrats who worked for them and hold all the real power

please forget hte last posting it is put in the wrong place

Sorry

As a french person i don't believe Monaco will become french, this is impossible because there is too much money from all over the world. Why should it become french when it has never been since many centuries.