<< Athelstan invaded Cornwall in 936, so the Cornish are just as "Anglo-Saxon" as the rest of the English people >>
Incorrect - in 936 the English boundary was set at the River Tamar by King Athelstan and the 'English' practiced genocide against the Cornish at Exeter (William of Malmesbury 'cleansed of its defilement by wiping out that filthy race'). Edmund, successor to Athlestan, styles himself 'King of the English and ruler of this province of the Britons', referring to Cornwall, thus making it clear that Cornwall was not and never has been formally incorporated into the English state. Cornish was the only language spoken West of the Tamar until the late 1500's.
There was no wholesale ethnic cleansing Jaro! They (the Saxons, Jutes, Angles etc)came to Britain at the request of one of the Celtic rulers Boudiccea or someone, my ancient history's a little rusty,to help him/her fight the Picts who were about to invade from Scotland and Cumbria.
Therefore, the Germans (Saxons and company) arrived in different waves, and not just to assist the Britons (Celtic) but to settle in England, since the land they had come from, in what is now the Jutland peninsula Denmark/Schleswig Holstein (Germany) was under dispute as the different Germanic tribes were fighting for living space or what Hitler referred to as Lebensraum sound familiar? The Germans have always needed to expand! Why do you think the British empire was the biggest? Because of the Germanic elements within the establishment!
You could call it an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy for world domination!? Nowadays the New Empire is the Open market economy. Run by whom predominantly? The Jews and their Anglo-Saxon chronies!
Question : why didn't the anglo-saxons conquer the whole GB ?
Answer : because the French did it !
CORNOUAILLES – CORNWALL
In 838 Cornwall (aided by Vikings) was the last part of England to surrender to the Anglo-Saxons. The West-Saxon king Egbert (775-839) was supposed to rule over Cornwall but his successors, Ethelberd Ethelred (two brothers), were trounced by the Danes around 865, therefore leaving more power to Cornish dynasties. Still, Celtic Cornwall fell into Anglo-Saxon orbit eventually. That said, Bretons – the ones who left Great Britain and sought refuge in Brittany – are thought to have fled Armorica under Viking attacks and settled in Cornwall, perhaps reinforcing the sociolinguistic particularism making modern Cornwall clearly distinct from England.
Anyway, it took many years for Guillaume le Conquérant, duke of Normandy and king of England from 1066 on, to seize the entire Cornwall. In 1069 a Cornish uprising was severely stopped by Guillaume’s lieutenants, including Brient de Penthièvre, a nephew of Alain III of Brittany. Bottom line : according to the Domesday Book – a cadastral survey organised by Guillaume in 1086, two thirds of Cornwall were the property of Robert de Mortain, Guillaume’s half-brother. Many Bretons who fought at Hastings were given Cornish land.
In 1135 Étienne de Blois (1097-1154), count of Mortain and Boulogne – known in England as king Stephen, landed on the Cornish peninsula to fight the partisans of Mathilde – wife of Geoffroy Plantagenêt (1113-1151), count of Anjou, Maine and Touraine, and daughter of Henri Beauclerc (1068-1135), the previous and deceased king of England. Étienne won the competition and the throne of England but couldn’t stop the Plantagenêt party erecting ‘adulterina castella’ (illegal castles) all over Cornwall. Finally it was Henri (1133-1189) – the son of Mathilde and Geoffroy – who took over from Étienne de Blois in 1154.
GALLES – WALES
Soon after 1066, a Saxon subject known as Éric le Sauvage (Edric the Wild) – aided by some Welsh – rebelled against Guillaume, who subsequently instituted three counties along the Southeastern-Welsh march – Chester, Shrewsbury and Hereford – and gave them to people like Guillaume Fils-Osbern (Fitz-Osbern), who built the castle of Chepstow, or Roger de Lacy (castle of Ludlow) or Roger de Montgomery (city of Montgomery).
The conquest of Southwestern Wales started around 1096, soon after Bernard de Neufmarché created the seignory of Brycheiniog. That said, in 1098 the French were defeated in Northern Wales (Gwynedd) by Gruffudd ap Cynan allied with Vikings. The reign of Étienne de Blois proved disastrous for the French as three independent Welsh kingdoms were reinstated : Gwynedd, Powys and Deheubarth. Henri II – the son of Mathilde and Geoffroy Plantagenêt – turned out to be no better since the rebellious kings of Wales were even arranging the support of the Capetian Louis VII (1119-1180), king of France and a mortal enemy for the Plantagenêt dynasty. The Welsh kings were so successful in defeating the Plantagenêts that one of them, Lywelyn ap Irowerth, even married a bastard-daughter of Jean sans Terre (1167-1216) – known in English as John Lackland – and forced the whole nobility established in Wales (including French nobles ruling Southern Wales) to acknowledge his suzerainty.
Welsh resistance was so strong that Henri III (1207-1272), ominously challenged as he was by his barons, was forced to sign the Treaty of Montgomery (1267) and grant the title of Prince of Wales to Llewelyn ap Gruffudd (1246-1282).
ÉCOSSE – SCOTLAND
Malcolm III (Grosse-Tête or Canmore) died in the fight at Alnwick against Guillaume le Roux (1056-1100), son of Guillaume le Conquérant. It’s the beginning of the Franco-Normand influence in Scotland. Later Robert de Brus (1274-1329) – Robert Bruce in English – took the massive estates of Annandale. Other French nobles seized some Scottish land : Bernard de Bailleul –a Picard knight, Gauthier Fils-Alan (Fitzalan) –a descendant of Alain Fils-Flad (Fitzflaad), a Breton seigneur.
In 1138 David I of Scotland launched an attack against Étienne de Blois. In 1174 Henri II captured Guillaume le Lion or William the Lion (1143-1214) – the grandson of David I – and forced the Scottish king to sign the Treaty of Falaise (1174), making Scotland a Plantagenêt possession. More treaties will be signed at the instigation of Richard Cœur de Lion (Lionheart), Jean sans Terre (John Lackland) and Henri III.
IRLANDE – IRELAND
Following an internal Irish dispute, Diarmait Mac Murchada (or Dermot Mac Murrough), the king of Leinster, flees to Aquitaine via Bristol to swear homage to Henri II Plantagenêt. Diarmait is allowed to recruit fresh forces among French seigneurs located in Welsh march, including Richard Fils-Gilbert de Clare. Wexford, Waterford and Dublin are seized by the expeditionary force commissioned by Henri II, who himself lands in Ireland later on. Fils-Gilbert is given Leinster while Hugues de Lacy received the seigniory of Meath and the vice-royalty of Dublin.
ANGLETERRE - ENGLAND
Ask Adam.
=>Ask Adam.<=
LOL , can you say : "Bitchslap:" ? /;)
The strong historical connection between Scotland and France prior to full Union with England in 1707 is well known, and does not only involve the interesting and ultimately tragic story of our lamented Mary, Queen of Scots.....killed by beheading in 1587 on the authority (later regretted but too late) of the English Virgin (so called LOL) Queen Elizabeth I. If she really was a virgin on her deathbed them I'll be the next man on the moon.
I agree Damian. If Scotland were to succeed an win independence from Sassenachs, then perhaps Wales, Northern Ireland and Cornwall could manage to do the same. Then no need to throw the UK out of the EU : we'd just throw England out of it, and keep Scotland, Wales, Cornwall and Reunited Ireland, provided peoples want it too.
Vive Marie !
J if Damian was born in Scotland then he's Scottish regardless of his Anglo-Saxon ancestry. That's like saying the Irish in the North of Ireland are Scottish/English! If you're born somewhere that's where you're from and that's that!
=>if Damian was born in Scotland then he's Scottish regardless of his Anglo-Saxon ancestry.<=
And what if Damian was black but born in Scotland?
To Sander the racist! If he were black he would be scottish. I he were made of gold he would still be scottish!
If he was black then he couldn't be Scottish, he could only be British.
If you're born in China it doesn't automatically make you Chineese.
J is me, I forgot to add "aro".
Why is calling someone "black" perceived as offensive? In my mother tongue we refer to people from Africa as "black" (but in my tongue) and 'neger' = "negro" is the offensive appelation for blacks.
"Thirdly, Cornwall, Wales and Scotland were largely untouched by the Romans "
Wrong. All of Cornwall and all of Wales were invaded by the Romans.
The very northernmost parts of England and all of Scotland weren't.
Re: "Thirdly, Cornwall, Wales and Scotland were largely untouched by the Romans "
Wrong. All of Cornwall and all of Wales were invaded by the Romans.
The very northernmost parts of England and all of Scotland weren't.
Adam,
No offense but are missing my point here . Yes, Roman armies did penetrate Wales several times and captured one of their chieftans Caraticus (Caradoch; Craddock etc.). Roman war ships and legions also came very close to the northern end of Scotland during Septimus Serverus' invasion of the country in 208 A.D.
However, Wales, Cornwall and Scotland were never integral parts of the Roman Empire. Pictland (Scotland) for all practical purposes was never part of the Empire in any way.
The Romans later allowed the Welsh to govern themselves under their own kings as long as they paid annual tribute. They seem to have had a similar arrangement with the Armorican Celts in northwest Gaul (Brittany).
Agricola had conquered all of Britain up to the southernmost part of Scotland (Dumbarton Oaks) in 43 A.D. but Hadrian later reestablished the boundrary a little further south around 120 A.D.
...you are missing my point...
There are people living here of all sorts of national origin and who were born here so you find Chinese with Scottish accents, as well as Asians and others. They are every bit as Scottish as I am. There is a large Italian population in Scotland (including those who make the best ice cream in the world!) so you have people with Italian names but with local Scottish accents.....that's just normal if you were born and bred here.
"What makes you English Adam if not your anglo-saxon origin?"
Because I was born in England and have lived here all my life.
"Incorrect - in 936 the English boundary was set at the River Tamar by King Athelstan and the 'English' practiced genocide against the Cornish at Exeter (William of Malmesbury 'cleansed of its defilement by wiping out that filthy race'). Edmund, successor to Athlestan, styles himself 'King of the English and ruler of this province of the Britons', referring to Cornwall, thus making it clear that Cornwall was not and never has been formally incorporated into the English state. Cornish was the only language spoken West of the Tamar until the late 1500's. "
Cornwall DID fall to the Anglo-Saxons, although it was the last to fall.
But that doesn't make it any less English. After all, the Anglo-Saxons invaded ALL of what is now England, not just Cornwall. ALL of England used to be Celtic before the Anglo-Saxons arrived. Don't forget, the Anglo-Saxons had to invade what is now Essex, Shropshire, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Kent, Sussex, Northumbria, Hampshire, etc. Not Just Cornwall. And before the Anglo-Saxons arrived, all of those counties had Celts living in them.
So does that mean that none of those counties are English?