I'm from Argentina and I attend a teacher training college. Here, we are taught to speak RP, and some teachers (phonetic teachers mainly) pretend me have perfect RP sounds and intonation. So, how not be obssed with this subject!? Of course, once you graduate you can do what you want. But, it' not like we speak in such an old fashioned way just because we have an RP accent (or imitate one), we are up-dated as regards vocabulary.
Can you speak Queen's English?
I find it incredible that anyone should think that any Australian accent sounds remotely cockney.
In what respects, pray?
Australians do not employ glottal stops - cockney trademark number one.
Australians do not render a "th" as an "f" - cockney trademark number two.
Only a tiny minority of Australians say "dahnce" for dance, although the broad A is used by all Australians in "can't", "fast", "past" etc.
So please, Jim C, give some specific examples of similarity (to your ear) between cockney and any Australian accent, and bear in mind that there are many, and some idea of where you have heard these examples, and how many such you have heard.
As for Neighbours, it was only watched in its country of origin by the less-educated.
In what respects, pray?
Australians do not employ glottal stops - cockney trademark number one.
Australians do not render a "th" as an "f" - cockney trademark number two.
Only a tiny minority of Australians say "dahnce" for dance, although the broad A is used by all Australians in "can't", "fast", "past" etc.
So please, Jim C, give some specific examples of similarity (to your ear) between cockney and any Australian accent, and bear in mind that there are many, and some idea of where you have heard these examples, and how many such you have heard.
As for Neighbours, it was only watched in its country of origin by the less-educated.
Many of the vowels in Cockney are very similar, especially to broad Australian accents where they're virtually identical. Just ask any Australian linguist if you're not convinced.
Glottal stops are used somewhat in AusE, e.g. pronunciation of "Mar?in" for Martin and the like is common. e.g. realisation of final /t/ like in "bat". Obviously not to the same extent as that in Cockney.
Unless you live in a cave, much of Australia watches or has watched Neighbours. Using the uneducated-less-educated-uneducated notion to gauge people is pathetic.
Glottal stops are used somewhat in AusE, e.g. pronunciation of "Mar?in" for Martin and the like is common. e.g. realisation of final /t/ like in "bat". Obviously not to the same extent as that in Cockney.
Unless you live in a cave, much of Australia watches or has watched Neighbours. Using the uneducated-less-educated-uneducated notion to gauge people is pathetic.
"Famous cast members include, Kylie and Danni Manogue, Russel Crowe, Natalie Imbruglia, I bet Nicole Kiddman was in it at some point"
Russel Crowe isn't Australian.
Russel Crowe isn't Australian.
Crowe was too young to say a word with a New Zealander accent by the time he was moved to Australia.
People can be born in different countries than the one they "belong" to. I'm a good example. It's not that uncommon.
Ah, the continuing "who sounds more cockney?" debate!
<<Australians do not employ glottal stops - cockney trademark number one.
Australians do not render a "th" as an "f" - cockney trademark number two. >>
Can't speak for Jim C, Henry, but as Aussie bleeder pointed out, it's the weird vowels in Australian and cockney that sound similar to me. I wouldn't notice glottal stops or th = f at all. I use glottal stops all the time myself, so I guess I find them pretty unremarkable.
<<Australians do not employ glottal stops - cockney trademark number one.
Australians do not render a "th" as an "f" - cockney trademark number two. >>
Can't speak for Jim C, Henry, but as Aussie bleeder pointed out, it's the weird vowels in Australian and cockney that sound similar to me. I wouldn't notice glottal stops or th = f at all. I use glottal stops all the time myself, so I guess I find them pretty unremarkable.
Following on from some of the comments about Australian sounding like Cockney, I think it's important to put things in context as both are right in a sense. The roots of both modern London accents and Australian accents lie in changes derived from 18th Century Cockney. "A" sounds, for example, started to be drawled so rhyming pairs such as "glass" and "lass" separated so glass became glahs, but lass retained its original sound. Also there was a stretching of some previously short "a" sounds so mad became maad, bag became baag etc. "U" sounds also split with the majority of words gaining a "^".
Many of the extra features associated with Cockney today such as glottal stops and "f" for "th" are relatively recent and have become increasingly common over the last 30 years. In the same way as 18th Century Cockney features became standard in the South East and can be heard in RP, it seems that the new Cockney features are again sweeping outwards (geographically) and upwards (socially) in the form of Estuary English.
Many of the extra features associated with Cockney today such as glottal stops and "f" for "th" are relatively recent and have become increasingly common over the last 30 years. In the same way as 18th Century Cockney features became standard in the South East and can be heard in RP, it seems that the new Cockney features are again sweeping outwards (geographically) and upwards (socially) in the form of Estuary English.
Lucy, you are not getting the Falklands back. They are English forever.
Nowadays, Americans always think I sound Australian. And after a short conversation they ask me, 'where did ya learn your English?'. And I say in reply 'Well, have a guess...' and they go 'Well, I sounds like you have an Australian accent!'
What are the features to inmediatly tell the difference between them two. For Example, you easily tell New Zealander accents apart when you hear them say 'Yes' and 'check' (I tensing). What about Australian accents, what's the trademark characteristic. Tell me, so I can tell them I don't sound Australia, bloody hell!
What are the features to inmediatly tell the difference between them two. For Example, you easily tell New Zealander accents apart when you hear them say 'Yes' and 'check' (I tensing). What about Australian accents, what's the trademark characteristic. Tell me, so I can tell them I don't sound Australia, bloody hell!
Many Australian accents have the American tendency to turn intervocalic 't's into a alveolar tap /4/. Meaning "better" often sounds like "bedder," etc. Actually, it's silly for me to identify that as an "American" characteristic, as it exists in Ireland, parts of Northern and Western England, South Africa and Canada as well.
Another huge difference between Cockneys and Aussies is in the "broad a." It's a much tighter sound in Oz: Aus [a:] versus Cockney [A:].
It's mostly the dipthongs that are so similar, although even in that case they aren't quite identical in the two dialects.
Another huge difference between Cockneys and Aussies is in the "broad a." It's a much tighter sound in Oz: Aus [a:] versus Cockney [A:].
It's mostly the dipthongs that are so similar, although even in that case they aren't quite identical in the two dialects.
Maytime in Little Gidding, Cambridgeshire, England
=================================
If you came this way,
Taking the route you would be likely to take
From the place you would be likely to come from,
If you came this way in may time, you would find the hedges
White again, in May, with voluptuary sweetness.
It would be the same at the end of the journey,
If you came at night like a broken king,
If you came by day not knowing what you came for,
It would be the same, when you leave the rough road
And turn behind the pig-sty to the dull facade
And the tombstone. And what you thought you came for
Is only a shell, a husk of meaning
From which the purpose breaks only when it is fulfilled
If at all. Either you had no purpose
Or the purpose is beyond the end you figured
And is altered in fulfilment. There are other places
Which also are the world's end, some at the sea jaws,
Or over a dark lake, in a desert or a city—
But this is the nearest, in place and time,
Now .......and in England.
=======================================
T S Eliot
=================================
If you came this way,
Taking the route you would be likely to take
From the place you would be likely to come from,
If you came this way in may time, you would find the hedges
White again, in May, with voluptuary sweetness.
It would be the same at the end of the journey,
If you came at night like a broken king,
If you came by day not knowing what you came for,
It would be the same, when you leave the rough road
And turn behind the pig-sty to the dull facade
And the tombstone. And what you thought you came for
Is only a shell, a husk of meaning
From which the purpose breaks only when it is fulfilled
If at all. Either you had no purpose
Or the purpose is beyond the end you figured
And is altered in fulfilment. There are other places
Which also are the world's end, some at the sea jaws,
Or over a dark lake, in a desert or a city—
But this is the nearest, in place and time,
Now .......and in England.
=======================================
T S Eliot
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