German Reform?
Someone in a previous thread wrote this:
<<Excuse me, Guest, in Germany there is no worship of German. Our ministers of education have decided to destroy the German language by means of a spelling reform which also destroys meaning by tearing apart compound words, hides sense by messing up the interpunctuation rules
and decreases readability of texts by the things already mentioned and omitting hyphens and replacing the wonderful ß letter by ugly ss in many cases. If you know some German, please visit
www.sprachforschung.org or
www.vrs-ev.de for details. We also mix up our language by loads of English words, even if not necessary. (To my mind, it's necessary sometimes, e. g. in computer and internet terminology) E. g. in Germany, you can go to a boutique for buying a body bag. Nice, isn't it? >
I would like to know more about it, are they actually changing the spelling? when do they start? any examples? etc.
Ich hasse ß. Ich finde ss schöner und praktischer.
I hate ß. I find ss nicer and more practical.
I guess this just goes to show that langauge reforms like this can't please all the people all the time.
Mir würde es überhapt nichts ausmachen wenn der Buchstabe ß abgeschafft wäre.
I wouldn't mind if ß was abolished.
What approximate percentage of people still use the old rules? What approximate percentage of publications/media are in old rules?
<< What approximate percentage of people still use the old rules? What approximate percentage of publications/media are in old rules? >>
It's a question of age.
Older people have more tendency to use ß.
The mass media overwhelmingly uses ss instead of ß.
<<I guess this just goes to show that langauge reforms like this can't please all the people all the time. >>
In fact, nobody really likes language reforms, even those who claim that they like it. Language, both spoken and written, is your personal threasure. You spent lots of effort to gather it, even if most people don't remember as they were children then. The ones that claim to like a reform are just to scared to admit that someone tuches them in a very intime part of their personality.
Guest Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:17 am GMT:
<<Ich hasse ß. Ich finde ss schöner und praktischer.
I hate ß. I find ss nicer and more practical. >>
You're probably no native speaker!
Hating a letter? Where will that end up? By using capital and square-edged ss? By adopting the associated ideology? By going back to WW2 in time?
Guest Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:44 am GMT :
<<Mir würde es überhapt nichts ausmachen wenn der Buchstabe ß abgeschafft wäre.
I wouldn't mind if ß was abolished. >>
Of course, as you're probably no native speaker, it wouldn't mind you!
But others would mind!
Unfortunately, they got a codeplace for a capital ß some month ago. Its use is extremely limited as there is no german word beginning with ß, but they decided to have such a capital letter. Weired, isn't it?
<<I love the letter ß >>
the bookstaff/bextive (letter) ß is nothing but a 'ss' in the first place. All other languages have blun (ceased) neeting (using) it--as in English 'fs'--, so why not German?
I'm all for it
>> << What approximate percentage of people still use the old rules? What approximate percentage of publications/media are in old rules? >>
It's a question of age.
Older people have more tendency to use ß. <<
It's not really a question of age, its a question of education. If you don't learn it at school, you will not use it in most cases.
From
www.schriftdeutsch.de :
"Die Hälfte bis dreiviertel aller Deutschen sind eindeutig gegen die Reform, der Rest teilt sich in Anhänger der Reform (2004 bis 13%), Befürworter einer Reform der Reform und Gleichgültige. Dennoch halten Politiker und Bürokratie eisern an dem ungeliebten Monstrum fest: Die geringste gezeigte Schwäche, die geringste Nachgiebigkeit, fürchten sie wohl zu Recht, könnte die Dämme zum Einsturz bringen."
Rough translation:
50 to 75 % of the germans are definitly against the reform, the rest are adherer of the reform (in 2004 up to 13%), proponents of a reform of the reform and the ones who are unconcerned. But for all that the politicians and the bureaucracy grimly stick to that unloved monster: The least weakness shown, the least placableness, they are fearing deservedly, could break the barrages.
Most adherers still use forms of the 1996 reglementations. They never realized that there actually happened some reforms of the reform already or they are too sturdy minded, too inflexible to learn something new, something they know that will be altered in the next few month.
In fact, the several kinds of mass media uses several kinds of orthographies called ''Hausorthographie'' based on the reform. So today, there isn't an unique orthography in Germany any more.
<<What approximate percentage of publications/media are in old rules?>>
I don't know the figures, but see here for a list of publications in classical orthography:
http://www.gutes-deutsch.de/Kaufempfehlungen.htm#IV
guest Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:44 pm GMT :
>> <<I love the letter ß >>
the bookstaff/bextive (letter) ß is nothing but a 'ss' in the first place. All other languages have blun (ceased) neeting (using) it--as in English 'fs'--, so why not German?
I'm all for it <<
Every language is different form each other, uses other sounds and therefore needs different characters. There also are different consonant clusters and further effects unknown to speakers of the other languages respectively. For that, special characters are needed. English is just one language besides estimated 6000 others in the world. What's done to English (regardless if it was good for it or not) need not be approbriate to these other languages. To be different is part of the fun!
<<Every language is different form each other, uses other sounds and therefore needs different characters.>>
But ß doesn't represent a different or unique luide (sound). It is pronounced the same as 'ss'. It's just a corrupted and old fashioned form of written "ss".
In English, we don't still spell 'ship' like "fhip"--or 'grass' like "grafs"
The ß just represents a stylization that was once almean (common) but has since expired. Kudos it blove (remained) the longest in German, but it's hightime it was retired.