Is the German language underestimated?

Slobodan Milosevic   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:14 am GMT
I would even consider the Netherlands an 'English speaking country' these days.
Chinese   Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:54 am GMT
Scandinavians and Dutches are perhaps more inclined to speak English than Germans, in my opinion.
Tierry   Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:08 am GMT
Slobodan Milosevic Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:14 am GMT
I would even consider the Netherlands an 'English speaking country' these days.

________________________________

If you mean that all Netherlanders can speak English fluently, you may be right (still it is exagerated!). They speak Neederlands as mother tongue and English as second language - they are bilingual, if not trilingual.

Perhaps it is difficult for members of cultures where bilingualism is seldom, to understand the difference between mother tongue and second language.....
J.C.   Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:53 am GMT
"JC, how did you learn? Could you share your experiences with us? Oh, yeah, I mean: did you use some sort of textbooks, did you stay in Germany, etc?"
Herr Xie:
Thank you so much for being a friend in the studies of the German language and for sharing the same interest in improving.
Well, maybe the books I used can't be so useful and the results can be different since we are native speakers of different languages, here's how I learned German:
In 1989, when I was in high school(15yo) I had a friend whose grandmother shared with me about the beauty of the German language and its rich culture, which inspired me to start learning and so I bought my first series of books simply called "Alemão" (German) with translation of words in Portuguese and also with tapes. After that I used my first textbook called "Alemão para brasileiros" (葡萄牙對巴士人)and "Alemão sem mestre" (葡萄牙沒有老師), which helped me mastering the basics of grammar with various exercices and their answers so that I could check my progress (I consider the keys to exercices INDISPENSABLE In a book for a self-taught).
In 1992 I started taking lessons at UFRJ (里約熱內盧聯邦大學)and realized that the previously studied vocabulary and grammar helped me understanding the lessons from start, which took me to actually speak German from the end of 1992. By the way, at UFRJ the textbook used was "Sprachkurs Deutsch" and I studied until volume 3, which gives the students the knowledge to pass "ZDaF", which I passed by the end od 1994. Since I first came to Japan in 1994 my German got a little KAPUTT for one year but I was surprised my German was close to my Japanese at the time since I could talk fluently to a German guy studying at the University of the Ryukyus (In Okinawa) with me at the time. Also, I had a friend from Vienna who said my German didn't have many grammatical mistakes,an accomplishment for someone who has NEVER been to Europe.

In 1995 I came back to Brazil and didn't study German again until I got back to college (I had to defer for 1 year to go to Japan) in 1996 and the studied one more semester of German until I graduated. In 1997 I started working as a translator at SOS KINDERDORF and that took my German to the next level since I had to deal with a lot of documents and formal language. However, I felt I needed to learn more and enrolled at Goethe Institut for the intermediate level but started from level 3(out of 5) then to level 5 before I applied for the ZMP, which I passed in December 1997. The textbook used during this course was "Mittelstufe Deutsch" from "Verlag für Deutsch".

In 1998 I enrolled for the Oberstufe but found out I'd come to Japan in April and had to give up but studied one semester at Goethe Institut Osaka, where I'd read newspaper articles in order to get to a better level of written German. After that course I wanted to do a preparatory course for the KDS certificate but such a course is available only at Goethe Institut Tokyo, where I had a friend (The former director of Goethe Institut Rio de Janeiro) that offered me a course for free if I were willing to travel to Tokyo twice a week...
After this my German was hibernating until 2004 when I started working at Honda and had to translate some technical documents from German into Japanese (That was tough) and decided to take a course at Goethe Institut Tokyo at the most advanced course which included watching the news, reading newspaper articles and expressing one's opinions to the other students. Unfortunately the Japanese aren't very fond of expressing their ideas so I found myself talking alone to the teacher.
During this course news videos from "Heute" and newspaper articles were used in addition to some units from the books "Auf Neuen Wegen" (Publisher "Hueber") and "Das Oberstufenbuch" (Publisher Schubert ).

Oops, I forgot that in 2003 I thought of applying for the KDS certificate and bought 3 books for studying:
1) Training Kleines Deutsches Sprachdiplom (Mündliche Prüfung und Diktat)
2) Training Kleines Deutsches Sprachdiplom (Ausdrücksfähigkeit und Texterklärung)
3) Training Kleines Deutsches Sprachdiplom (Lektüre)

In addition to these books I had to buy the mandatory readings for the text, which were:
1) Das Kalte Herz (Wilhelm Hauff)
2) Nicht alle waren Mörder (Michael Degen)

But since I couldn't read these for the first semester of 2003 the books for the second semester were:
1) Arnes Nachlaß (Siegfrid Lenz)
2) Die Steinflut (Franz Hohler)

Which are still waiting to be read...
By the way, after applying for the KDS I realized that German takes its examinations seriously and only people who know it can pass.

Back to 2008 I felt the urge to study German again and, since I have nobody to speak to and got sick of reading, I decided to start listening, which led me to Deutsch Welle with the following podcasts:
1) Deutsche im Alltag (Very interesting podcast with daily German not found in textbooks): http://www.deutsche-welle.de/dw/0,2142,9214,00.html
2) Langsam gesprochene Nachrichten (News spoken slowly with text available, which is very good to get used to news in German): http://www.dw-world.de/dw/0,2142,8030,00.html

In addition to these 2 there are lots of interesting podcats on Deutsche Welle website. Please take a good look!!

Last but not least, my reference books for vocabulary and grammar are:

1) Langenscheidts Großwörtenbuch (Deutsch als Fremdsprache)
2) Duden (4th band out of 12): Die Grammatik

I also use the web-based dictionary Leo (http://dict.leo.org/?lang=de), which has the option of choosing German into English, Spanish, French, Italian and Chinese (The other way around, too)

Well,that's what I've used so far and I hope it's useful for you!!!

Viel Glück!!!
Chinese   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:16 am GMT
With the method of free translation (by meaning), as follows,

"Alemão para brasileiros"= “German for brazilians”:
巴西人学德语 (为巴西人设计的德语教材)。

"Alemão sem mestre" = “German without teacher”:
无师自通学德语(不需要教师的帮助)。

And “葡萄牙” = Portugal.
J.C.   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:22 am GMT
Chinese:
Thanks for the help with translation!!Since I intended to reply mainly for Xie I thought that Chinese would be better but your translation gave me a better view of the language.
BTW, can't 葡萄牙 also be translated as "Portuguese" ?

Thank you!!!
Chinese   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:31 am GMT
葡萄牙=Portugal (country)

葡萄牙语 (葡萄牙語)=Portuguese (language)


but。。。why。。。?

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Chinese   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:36 am GMT
葡萄牙語=Portuguese(language)

葡萄牙=Portugal(country)
J.C.   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:40 am GMT
Chinese:

Danke!!! 謝謝您!
Chinese   Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:44 am GMT
Nicht zu danken! (別客氣!)
Kess   Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:01 am GMT
Most German singers sing in English.
One third of all eurodance songs from the 90ies (including Mr Vain [by Culture Beat], Be my Lover [by La Bouche], What is Love [by Haddaway], Another Night [by Real McCoy]) were made and produced by Germans, but sung in English!

So, why would anyone bother to learn German when Germans find speaking English very comfortable. I've visited Germany and Austria many times, and speaking English was just about enough.
Tyrone   Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:58 am GMT
<<
Perhaps it is difficult for members of cultures where bilingualism is seldom, to understand the difference between mother tongue and second language..... >>

Yes, it is not a 'true' English speaking country, however I would venture to say it is English speaking in the same sense that Catalunya is Spanish speaking, or Paraguay Spanish speaking, or South Africa English speaking, or Quebec English speaking... etc, all places where they have their own language but are almost always perfectly able to use the other language. The only thing missing is the world 'official'.
Böhser Onkel   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:22 pm GMT
<<Most German singers sing in English.
One third of all eurodance songs from the 90ies (including Mr Vain [by Culture Beat], Be my Lover [by La Bouche], What is Love [by Haddaway], Another Night [by Real McCoy]) were made and produced by Germans, but sung in English!>>

You still live in the 90ies?
I take it you're not German or do not live in Germany, since I can assure you that nowadays, there are much more German bands singing solely in German than ever!
The following bands and musicians singing in German are rather popular in Germany:
Wir sind Helden, Juli, Silbermond, Sportfreunde Stiller, Tokio Hotel, Annett Louisan, LaFee, Rosenstolz, Bushido, Kool Savas, Sido, Fettes Brot, Laith Al-Deen, Die Ärzte, Die Toten Hosen, Xavier Naidoo, Die Söhne Mannheims etc.
Morticia   Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:42 pm GMT
<<Yes, it is not a 'true' English speaking country, however I would venture to say it is English speaking in the same sense that Catalunya is Spanish speaking, or Paraguay Spanish speaking, or South Africa English speaking, or Quebec English speaking>>

In Cataluña there are native Spanish speakers too .
J.C.   Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:00 pm GMT
"So, why would anyone bother to learn German when Germans find speaking English very comfortable. I've visited Germany and Austria many times, and speaking English was just about enough."
I don't know how many German speakers you met and how good they spoke English but that doesn't mean that ALL Germans speak English and you could lose opportunities of meeting amazing people just because you don't know the local language. I have never been to Germany or other German speaking country but if Germans are as nice as the Japanese when you speak their native language I might have an experience much different from yours. Either way, I think that depending on English for travelling is boring. Changing topic a little, I could get a lift in an island in Korea called Cheju because I spoke some Korean and got some Beijing duck on a train from Beijing to Shanghai because of my broken Chinese. I also had one of the coolest travels of my life crossing from San Antonio to Mexico and then getting a bus all the way to Monterrey, where I could exchange some ideas with the locals despite my messed up portuñol. I can assure you that I'd have lost all the opportunities if I spoke only English. I don't know about you but I'd feel happy to hear someone speaking or at least trying to communicate in my native language and think that people in other countries feel the same.