The above post is from me
Is "Brit" an insulting term?
<<The British kicked your butts.
It always amuses me when I see Americans boasting about the War of Independence, as though they really think that a bunch of peasants and farmers CAN defeat the world's superpower, which it's most technolically advanced equipment and best-trained soldiers, only for me to have to remind them that the British won two-thirds of the battles using only one-tenth of their total manpower, only to give the Americans their independence because we decided that the American colonies were so WORTHLESS that we couldn't be bothered fighting for them anymore. >>
Sorry, Adam, too busy giggling to mount a rebuttal....not that one's needed!
It always amuses me when I see Americans boasting about the War of Independence, as though they really think that a bunch of peasants and farmers CAN defeat the world's superpower, which it's most technolically advanced equipment and best-trained soldiers, only for me to have to remind them that the British won two-thirds of the battles using only one-tenth of their total manpower, only to give the Americans their independence because we decided that the American colonies were so WORTHLESS that we couldn't be bothered fighting for them anymore. >>
Sorry, Adam, too busy giggling to mount a rebuttal....not that one's needed!
Well, Bill, I'm no historian but I don't know if you can really count the War of 1812 as a bona fide asswhipping. The Battle of New Orleans notwithstanding. Plus, that battle did take place AFTER the peace treaty had been signed for some weeks ...
<<It always amuses me when I see Americans boasting about the War of Independence>>
Me too Uriel. If it weren't for the French we'd be singing, "God Save The Queen."
Me too Uriel. If it weren't for the French we'd be singing, "God Save The Queen."
<<There was NO Republic of Ireland before 1922. Before 1922, the whole of Ireland was a part of Britain, so talking about Irish Catholics fighting in the British army in the 1800s is pointless, because Irish people were BRITISH. >>
I realize that but you're right, I should have just said, "Ireland." But I was under the impression that the Germans helped the Irish in their struggle for independence by selling them weapons.
<<BUT, whilst British soldiers were away fighting in the trenches to keep Britain (including Ireland) free from tyranny, some Irish people who wanted independence were trying to persuade the Germans to invade Ireland, to make it easer for them to invade the rest of the UK, hoping that then Ireland would get its independence. >>
Now that I didn't know.
I realize that but you're right, I should have just said, "Ireland." But I was under the impression that the Germans helped the Irish in their struggle for independence by selling them weapons.
<<BUT, whilst British soldiers were away fighting in the trenches to keep Britain (including Ireland) free from tyranny, some Irish people who wanted independence were trying to persuade the Germans to invade Ireland, to make it easer for them to invade the rest of the UK, hoping that then Ireland would get its independence. >>
Now that I didn't know.
Nobody denies the help we got from the French. But, um, I seem to recall that the British needed to employ mercenaries from Hesse, and still got Whupped -- Twice.
Uriel, what the hell does the date have to do with it. There was a battle, and they lost.
How would you all react if I dared to say that you all would be speaking German -- twice -- if not for the US?
It always amuses ME when Europeans, and Euro-wannabes here, lecture the US on diplomacy, when your brilliant policies and ideas let TWO world wars get started.
I didn't start this.
Uriel, what the hell does the date have to do with it. There was a battle, and they lost.
How would you all react if I dared to say that you all would be speaking German -- twice -- if not for the US?
It always amuses ME when Europeans, and Euro-wannabes here, lecture the US on diplomacy, when your brilliant policies and ideas let TWO world wars get started.
I didn't start this.
<<I haven't heard of the Irish fighting in those wars. That's interesting. I was under the impression that the Republic of Ireland itself remains neutral in wars but maybe that's only recent wars, although I think I might vaguely have an idea that some Irish men sign up for the British armed forces. >>
The reason I mentioned this is because Irish history has become so highly politicized, not to mention polarized. To a large extent it goes back to 1846 and the potato famine that killed millions in Ireland. The point I always make yes, the British government at the time did too little, too late and no doubt they were treated badly, but so too were all poor people in mainland Britain at the time. In modern times Irish history has tended to ignore it's role in the development of the British Empire and rather prefer to see itself as a victim of it.
As for WWII, even though Ireland was by this time a separate state and neutral, around 46,000 Southern Irishmen chose to fight in the British Army.
The reason I mentioned this is because Irish history has become so highly politicized, not to mention polarized. To a large extent it goes back to 1846 and the potato famine that killed millions in Ireland. The point I always make yes, the British government at the time did too little, too late and no doubt they were treated badly, but so too were all poor people in mainland Britain at the time. In modern times Irish history has tended to ignore it's role in the development of the British Empire and rather prefer to see itself as a victim of it.
As for WWII, even though Ireland was by this time a separate state and neutral, around 46,000 Southern Irishmen chose to fight in the British Army.
<<As for WWII, even though Ireland was by this time a separate state and neutral, around 46,000 Southern Irishmen chose to fight in the British Army. >>
Interesting.
<<Irish history has become so highly politicized, not to mention polarized. To a large extent it goes back to 1846 and the potato famine that killed millions in Ireland. The point I always make yes, the British government at the time did too little, too late and no doubt they were treated badly, but so too were all poor people in mainland Britain at the time. In modern times Irish history has tended to ignore it's role in the development of the British Empire and rather prefer to see itself as a victim of it.>>
You make some good points, Guest, although there are probably some Irish who wouldn't see it that way.
I am also under the impression that relations between the Republic of Ireland and England, or I should say, the relations between the majority of the people in these countries, have greatly improved in the past two or so years. Do you think so?
Interesting.
<<Irish history has become so highly politicized, not to mention polarized. To a large extent it goes back to 1846 and the potato famine that killed millions in Ireland. The point I always make yes, the British government at the time did too little, too late and no doubt they were treated badly, but so too were all poor people in mainland Britain at the time. In modern times Irish history has tended to ignore it's role in the development of the British Empire and rather prefer to see itself as a victim of it.>>
You make some good points, Guest, although there are probably some Irish who wouldn't see it that way.
I am also under the impression that relations between the Republic of Ireland and England, or I should say, the relations between the majority of the people in these countries, have greatly improved in the past two or so years. Do you think so?
"So much for Ireland remaining 'neutral.' They secretly hoped that the Germans would win both World Wars."
Well no, they didn't.
With many young Irishmen away at the front, the Post Office rising in Dublin in 1916 had no particular popular support in Ireland. But the Crown snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by executing the ring-leaders and making them "martyrs for Ireland."
Although the Irish Free State* remained neutral throughout World War Two, Irish sympathies were clearly with Britain, notwithstanding old DeValera foolishly signing the book of condolences at the German Embassy in Dublin.
Irish food, Irish labour and Irish volunteers made a vital contribution to the British war effort.
Indeed, one important reason any substantial IRA-German cooperation against the British floundered was the simple fact that the IRA just didn't like Hitler.
* An interesting situation. Ireland only became a republic in 1948. Throughout the war, it was the Free State and its constitutional Head of State was - the King.
Well no, they didn't.
With many young Irishmen away at the front, the Post Office rising in Dublin in 1916 had no particular popular support in Ireland. But the Crown snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by executing the ring-leaders and making them "martyrs for Ireland."
Although the Irish Free State* remained neutral throughout World War Two, Irish sympathies were clearly with Britain, notwithstanding old DeValera foolishly signing the book of condolences at the German Embassy in Dublin.
Irish food, Irish labour and Irish volunteers made a vital contribution to the British war effort.
Indeed, one important reason any substantial IRA-German cooperation against the British floundered was the simple fact that the IRA just didn't like Hitler.
* An interesting situation. Ireland only became a republic in 1948. Throughout the war, it was the Free State and its constitutional Head of State was - the King.
<<It always amuses ME when Europeans, and Euro-wannabes here, lecture the US on diplomacy, when your brilliant policies and ideas let TWO world wars get started.>>
I'm not a Euro-wannabe. But then I hail from the "Hub of the Universe." :)
I'm glad to hear, Bill the Yank, that you give credit to the French. The poor people have been so maligned lately.
I'm not a Euro-wannabe. But then I hail from the "Hub of the Universe." :)
I'm glad to hear, Bill the Yank, that you give credit to the French. The poor people have been so maligned lately.
"Self delusion is not a trait that leads to greatness, Adam."
Indeed Bill, and for all your shots at Adam, your own version of history suffers from considerable self-delusion as well.
Your War of Independence was actually a civil war. Without French intervention, particularly at Yorktown, it might well have ended rather differently.
And the "Indians" tended to stick with the Crown, not the rebellious colonists.
"You are entitled to your own opinion however silly, but not your own facts."
Indeed Bill, and for all your shots at Adam, your own version of history suffers from considerable self-delusion as well.
Your War of Independence was actually a civil war. Without French intervention, particularly at Yorktown, it might well have ended rather differently.
And the "Indians" tended to stick with the Crown, not the rebellious colonists.
"You are entitled to your own opinion however silly, but not your own facts."
Indeed, one important reason any substantial IRA-German cooperation against the British floundered was the simple fact that the IRA just didn't like Hitler.>>
Not to get too off topic, but I suppose we already are, wasn't the Duke of Windsor at the time, an admirer of Hitler?
Not to get too off topic, but I suppose we already are, wasn't the Duke of Windsor at the time, an admirer of Hitler?
"Not to get too off topic, but I suppose we already are, wasn't the Duke of Windsor at the time, an admirer of Hitler?"
Before the Second World War, Hitler had many admirers - not only among influential people in the UK, but also in the US too. The war has obscured our perspective on this aspect of fascism. There were fascist political movements throughout Europe in the Thirties. Try googling "British Union of Fascists" or "German American Bund" sometime.
Hitler's crackpot worldview was merely the ultimate manifestation of a grab-bag of crank ideas going back to the Social Darwinism of the 19th Century.
Of course, the war thoroughly discredited fascism as a political force. It would take another 45 years to put paid to that other lunatic ideology of the 20th Century - communism.
Before the Second World War, Hitler had many admirers - not only among influential people in the UK, but also in the US too. The war has obscured our perspective on this aspect of fascism. There were fascist political movements throughout Europe in the Thirties. Try googling "British Union of Fascists" or "German American Bund" sometime.
Hitler's crackpot worldview was merely the ultimate manifestation of a grab-bag of crank ideas going back to the Social Darwinism of the 19th Century.
Of course, the war thoroughly discredited fascism as a political force. It would take another 45 years to put paid to that other lunatic ideology of the 20th Century - communism.
JJM,
I took shots at Adam because he made an utterly silly statement, which does, indeed, amount to self delusion; it's utter fiction.
You and I may assign different weight to different facts, but that does not amount to self-delusion.
Nice try, though.
I took shots at Adam because he made an utterly silly statement, which does, indeed, amount to self delusion; it's utter fiction.
You and I may assign different weight to different facts, but that does not amount to self-delusion.
Nice try, though.
<<I am also under the impression that relations between the Republic of Ireland and England, or I should say, the relations between the majority of the people in these countries, have greatly improved in the past two or so years. Do you think so?>>
Relations between the Republic of Ireland and Britain have always been good, likewise the relations between Irish and British people- the real problems have been the nutters in Northern Ireland (which is a part of the UK).
Relations between the Republic of Ireland and Britain have always been good, likewise the relations between Irish and British people- the real problems have been the nutters in Northern Ireland (which is a part of the UK).