Sorry...no comma after "older", probably not even after "some". I'm not sure - sadly enough, punctuation is not my forte (strictly pronounced as "for-tay", not "fort" as it was suggested by some self-proclaimed experts in this forum some time ago :-) - no offence to those who happen to say "fort", though :-)).
Things Americans tend to say that sound weird to you
It's interesting that we still say "forgotten" not "forgot" and the older form has also been preserved in the expression "ill-gotten gains".
It really depends on the tense you are using when it comes to this word - as usual I speak from a British perspective, of course.
"Och no! - I've forgotten how to do this!" .... present.
" I forgot how to do it!" ......past
"Och no! I keep forgetting how to do this!".....on going present tense and indicating crass stupidity and ineptitude on my part.
It's much more usual for us to say "I've got used to this situation now!" rather than using "gotten" as our American brethren tend to do. If we used the word "gotten" it would be like we'd been whisked back almost 400 years and about to board the Mayflower on the quayside way down there at Plymouth* Hoe.
*I assume Americans pronounce this as "PLIM-uth"? Aye...of course they do.......don't they?
"Och no! - I've forgotten how to do this!" .... present.
" I forgot how to do it!" ......past
"Och no! I keep forgetting how to do this!".....on going present tense and indicating crass stupidity and ineptitude on my part.
It's much more usual for us to say "I've got used to this situation now!" rather than using "gotten" as our American brethren tend to do. If we used the word "gotten" it would be like we'd been whisked back almost 400 years and about to board the Mayflower on the quayside way down there at Plymouth* Hoe.
*I assume Americans pronounce this as "PLIM-uth"? Aye...of course they do.......don't they?
Oh yes...."ill gotten gains"....that IS used here when it's appropriate to do so....you could say it's done for effect in a poetic manner.
I heard someone use it on the radio the other day in connection with the former chief executive of the ill fated Royal Bank of Scotland - suffering astronomical financial losses - Sir Fred Goodwin - who was granted (by the British Government!) a retirement pension of £680,000 per annum! That's a pension income of £1,863 a day.
This spokesperson on the BBC called them "Ill gotten gains". I make no further comment.
I heard someone use it on the radio the other day in connection with the former chief executive of the ill fated Royal Bank of Scotland - suffering astronomical financial losses - Sir Fred Goodwin - who was granted (by the British Government!) a retirement pension of £680,000 per annum! That's a pension income of £1,863 a day.
This spokesperson on the BBC called them "Ill gotten gains". I make no further comment.
<<It really depends on the tense you are using when it comes to this word - as usual I speak from a British perspective, of course.>>
Yes, of course it depends on the tense. I meant the "forget-forgot-forgotten" pattern, as opposed to "get-got-got", from a British perspective.
As for Sir Fred Goodwin's ill-gotten gains...you're right...it needs no further explanaition. :-)
Goodwin...yes...nomen est omen. :-)
Yes, of course it depends on the tense. I meant the "forget-forgot-forgotten" pattern, as opposed to "get-got-got", from a British perspective.
As for Sir Fred Goodwin's ill-gotten gains...you're right...it needs no further explanaition. :-)
Goodwin...yes...nomen est omen. :-)
"I've got used to this situation": sounds greammatically incorrect.
Plymouth: yes we pronounce it /'plIm@T/. How do you pronounce it?
Plymouth: yes we pronounce it /'plIm@T/. How do you pronounce it?
He's referring to our tendency to pronounce things literally as written, but yes, Damian, even here Plymouth is "Plimmuth", Portsmouth is "Portsmuth", Norfolk is "Norfick" or even "Naffick", Gloucester is "Glosster", Worcester is "Wooster", etc. Those towns are so old that they brought over the shortened pronunciations right with the original settlers.
If they had been newly named today by people far removed from that speech style, it might be understandably different.....
If they had been newly named today by people far removed from that speech style, it might be understandably different.....
"I've gotten a computer"? What? I'm an American and I have never once heard a person speak like that. If somebody said that you would have to wonder what was wrong with them.
Oh yeah, and Americans pronounce British town names pretty much like the British, unless they're from places where the British did not originally colonize (which is to say, most of the country).
It's funny how foreigners criticize Americans for not knowing about the culture of other countries, but how many of you actually understand and know America? Note: The crap we send over to you on screens is taken with a grain of salt here, so don't think that imparts some special kind-of knowledge.
It's funny how foreigners criticize Americans for not knowing about the culture of other countries, but how many of you actually understand and know America? Note: The crap we send over to you on screens is taken with a grain of salt here, so don't think that imparts some special kind-of knowledge.
That depends - over here in Wisconsin, at least, we only know such pronunciations for the most well-known English city and town names. For instance, the correct pronuncations for "Plymouth", "Portsmouth", and "Greenwich" are very well-known here, while the correct pronunciations for "Worcester" and "Gloucester" is somewhat commonly but not universally known here and the correct pronunciation for "Norfolk" is unknown here (yes, "Norfolk" is "Nor-folk" [ˈnɔʁfoʔk] here). And those are some of the most well-known examples, too - for many a city or town in the UK, their correct pronunciations are simply unknown here. Of course, that should be understandable considering that much of the population here never came from the British Isles in the first place, and thus would have never brought such pronunciations with them themselves in the past.
The pronunciation of various "-mouths" is fairly confused within Britain itself (see http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/blog0710b.htm). Plymouth is peculiar in that there's *no* tendency for those north of the mouth-line to give it the full "mouth".
What is considered the "Correct" pronunciation can be down to more than the actual local version. One version of the common "Americans-pronouncing-town-names-wrong" jibe I have read tried to make fun of them for stressing the second syllable in "Newcastle". That *is* how it is pronounced in the town.
What is considered the "Correct" pronunciation can be down to more than the actual local version. One version of the common "Americans-pronouncing-town-names-wrong" jibe I have read tried to make fun of them for stressing the second syllable in "Newcastle". That *is* how it is pronounced in the town.
I think Uriel was right when she said that the pronunciation of most of those familiar place names on the map of the United States - familiar to the British anyway - was exported over there in the first place and the British pronounciations became established over there.
For historical reasons many British placenames are not at all phonetic with pronunciations not really corresponding with the spellings - I've delved into this before in this Forum. In face many such names don't look anything like the way they are pronounced - it's just a typical example of traditional British quirkiness I reckon, but there you go - eccentricity and the British character (especially the English version) just seem to go hand in hand together. The French hace always had L'Angleterre well taped in this respet by referring to it as "L'Albion Perfide!" - Perfidious Albion.
Of course Greenwich (Gren-ich or, quite often Gren-idge) is well known all over the planet because of the Prime Meridian and the "Where Time Begins" thing and I don't suppose anybody says that name precisely as it is spelled. There are other such examples among British place names - such as Harwich - the port in Essex, England, where the ferries across the North Sea to the Low Countries come and go each day. It's "Harr-ich" or "Harr-idge". But, just to confuse the issue, if you are in the Manchester suburb of Prestwich or the Cheshire town of Nantwich then you pronounce them exactly as they are spelled - both are "witches" - in the nicest possible way.
The "wich" ending has similar roots to the "wick" ending in many place names - all historically Early / Middle English in origin, like all those endings such as "-burgh" "-bury" "-ham" "-ford" "-ton" "-cester" etc etc. That lovely town down there in the Scottish Borders Region - Hawick - does confuse people who don't know that it's correct pronunciation is simply "Hoy-ik" or just ""Hoik". Just across the border, in Northumberland, England - there is a magnificent castle in the town of Alnwick - that's "Annick" to everyone who knows - no L required. However, on the coast of Ayrshire, here in Scotland again, there is an important airport at Prestwick - now that really is "Prest-wick".
So Americans get Gloucester and Worcester right - right in the sense that they pronuonce them the same way as we do - well, England had these places centuries before America was even "invented" so as Uriel says the Puritans exported them - I reckon they get Leicester right too - but i'm not too sure what they would make of Bicester, or Cirencester or Towcester, but there you go - some Brits themselves get those wrong sometimes. They should be "Bistuh" "Sirensestuh" and "Toastuh" .....Americans are allowed to rhoticise the endings unlike the English who have them ending with a simple "uh" as I say.
It's always fun to hear Americans getting some names wrong whe they are over here....we are well used to hearing some of them getting Edinburgh wrong, but as we value their presence here in this city we never correct them.
I wonder how they get on with well known places like:
Falkirk (Scotland)
Galashiels (Scot) - please don't rhyme first bit with "tailor"!
Dumfries (Scot) - connected with Robbie Burns
Salisbury (Eng)
Leominster (Eng) - people who live in MA should know this one.
Warwick - no, it is not as spelled!
Chatham (Eng) - the "ham" thing again! No!
Nottingham (Eng) - please, please don't emphasise the "ham"!
Marlborough (Eng) - please don't be literal with the "borough"!
Ripon (Eng) - please don't say "eye!"
Many names like Gloucester, Warwick, Norfolk, Essex, Leicester, Hereford, Stafford etc are found in many of Shakespeare's plays - usually as titles for characters who Earls and Dukes - many of which still exist today, the titles having been handed down to successors over the centuries.
For historical reasons many British placenames are not at all phonetic with pronunciations not really corresponding with the spellings - I've delved into this before in this Forum. In face many such names don't look anything like the way they are pronounced - it's just a typical example of traditional British quirkiness I reckon, but there you go - eccentricity and the British character (especially the English version) just seem to go hand in hand together. The French hace always had L'Angleterre well taped in this respet by referring to it as "L'Albion Perfide!" - Perfidious Albion.
Of course Greenwich (Gren-ich or, quite often Gren-idge) is well known all over the planet because of the Prime Meridian and the "Where Time Begins" thing and I don't suppose anybody says that name precisely as it is spelled. There are other such examples among British place names - such as Harwich - the port in Essex, England, where the ferries across the North Sea to the Low Countries come and go each day. It's "Harr-ich" or "Harr-idge". But, just to confuse the issue, if you are in the Manchester suburb of Prestwich or the Cheshire town of Nantwich then you pronounce them exactly as they are spelled - both are "witches" - in the nicest possible way.
The "wich" ending has similar roots to the "wick" ending in many place names - all historically Early / Middle English in origin, like all those endings such as "-burgh" "-bury" "-ham" "-ford" "-ton" "-cester" etc etc. That lovely town down there in the Scottish Borders Region - Hawick - does confuse people who don't know that it's correct pronunciation is simply "Hoy-ik" or just ""Hoik". Just across the border, in Northumberland, England - there is a magnificent castle in the town of Alnwick - that's "Annick" to everyone who knows - no L required. However, on the coast of Ayrshire, here in Scotland again, there is an important airport at Prestwick - now that really is "Prest-wick".
So Americans get Gloucester and Worcester right - right in the sense that they pronuonce them the same way as we do - well, England had these places centuries before America was even "invented" so as Uriel says the Puritans exported them - I reckon they get Leicester right too - but i'm not too sure what they would make of Bicester, or Cirencester or Towcester, but there you go - some Brits themselves get those wrong sometimes. They should be "Bistuh" "Sirensestuh" and "Toastuh" .....Americans are allowed to rhoticise the endings unlike the English who have them ending with a simple "uh" as I say.
It's always fun to hear Americans getting some names wrong whe they are over here....we are well used to hearing some of them getting Edinburgh wrong, but as we value their presence here in this city we never correct them.
I wonder how they get on with well known places like:
Falkirk (Scotland)
Galashiels (Scot) - please don't rhyme first bit with "tailor"!
Dumfries (Scot) - connected with Robbie Burns
Salisbury (Eng)
Leominster (Eng) - people who live in MA should know this one.
Warwick - no, it is not as spelled!
Chatham (Eng) - the "ham" thing again! No!
Nottingham (Eng) - please, please don't emphasise the "ham"!
Marlborough (Eng) - please don't be literal with the "borough"!
Ripon (Eng) - please don't say "eye!"
Many names like Gloucester, Warwick, Norfolk, Essex, Leicester, Hereford, Stafford etc are found in many of Shakespeare's plays - usually as titles for characters who Earls and Dukes - many of which still exist today, the titles having been handed down to successors over the centuries.
I always feel a bit odd about the subject of mispronouncing place names. One does like to be accurate, but knowing all idiosyncratic pronunciations anywhere is nearly impossible. Everyone feels a bit offended/contemptuously amused when people mispronounce place names they know, but they never really extend the courtesy they expect to others. Because really it isn't an issue of being stupid or even particularly ignorant, those pronunciations are something someone has to tell you. I don't know how to pronounce Gloucester or Worcester or Leominster because of my great study of English culture, I know them because I grew up in Massachusetts, where every other town has an English equivalent.
I suppose we'll have to compromise and just get the big ones in line. We'll learn how to say Edinburgh and Brits can learn how to say Maryland. ;p
There is one minor one that I have a question about though, and that's Haverhill.
Haverhill, MA is pronounced Havril, while Haverhill, Suffolk has a slightly more literal interpretation. I heard a rumor on the internets that the Haverhill pronunciation is rather recent and it used to be pronounced more like its namesake across the pond. Can anyone confirm or deny that for me?
I suppose we'll have to compromise and just get the big ones in line. We'll learn how to say Edinburgh and Brits can learn how to say Maryland. ;p
There is one minor one that I have a question about though, and that's Haverhill.
Haverhill, MA is pronounced Havril, while Haverhill, Suffolk has a slightly more literal interpretation. I heard a rumor on the internets that the Haverhill pronunciation is rather recent and it used to be pronounced more like its namesake across the pond. Can anyone confirm or deny that for me?