What does French sound like?
The substratum/superstratum conjecture is pure bullshit as a whole.
Every language evolves according to its own internal logic and laws.
What are the 'substratum' or 'superstratum' that could explain the extraordinary tonal differences between Spanish and Portuguese, or between Danish and Swedish?
""r" and "eu" in French sounds like "r" and "ö" in German."
-- Not quite. The r's are articulated just the same way in both languages (except for some dialects that use rolled r's), but the German r's are almost always voiced while the French tend increasingly to devoice theirs.
What are the 'substratum' or 'superstratum' that could explain the extraordinary tonal differences between Spanish and Portuguese, or between Danish and Swedish?
Portuguese has Celtic substratum (curiously like French has) and Spanish has Basque substratum. Next question, please.
<<What are the 'substratum' or 'superstratum' that could explain the extraordinary tonal differences between Spanish and Portuguese, or between Danish and Swedish? >>
Old Danish (originated from South Sweden-Skåne area) was influenced by Old Frisian,Old Saxon,Old Jutish.Old Swedish wasn't.
Portuguese has Basque (or Iberian)substratum( for example:esquerdo-right,veiga-field) too (less than Spanish).
No, Portuguese has not Basque substratum, nor Iberians. The Basques lived in Northern Spain (and still do) whereas the Iberians were from Eastern Spain. Portugual is far from these two ethnic groups. The word "esquerda" was introduced in Portuguese during the Middle Ages as a Basque loanword because the Latin word "sinistra" had negative connotations. It has nothing to do with any substratum. Portuguese is very nasal and has a lot of vowels because of its Celtic substratum .
<<PORTUGUESE VOCABULARY
From Iberian:
abóbora "pumpkin"
arroio "brook, stream"
baía "bay" (cf. Basque ibai 'river')
balsa "ferry"
barranco "ravine"
barro "clay"
bezerro "1 year-old calf"
bizarro "quaint, bizar"
cama "bed"
carrasco "executioner"
cavaco "small woods"
esquerdo "left" (cf. Basque ezker 'left')
lousa "slate"
manteiga "butter"
mata, mato "woods"
morro "hill"
mouta, moita "bush"
sapo "toad"
sarna "scabbies"
seara "crops"
tojo "gorse"
várzea "meadow"
veiga "meadow, grassland">>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_vocabulary
A superstratum only adds vocabulary to a language, If grammar and phonology is affected that must mean it is from a substratal influence.
<<Danish and Swedish>>
The difference between Danish and Swedish debunks the theory that substratum is 100% responsible for the phonemic variances between languages. A Frisian "influence" is not a substratum, more like a superstatum if anything.
Could it be that the Spanish and Portuguese just wanted to differentiate themselves from each other for the sake of national selfhood? and magnify their individualities? hmmMm?
"Could it be that the Spanish and Portuguese just wanted to differentiate themselves from each other for the sake of national selfhood? and magnify their individualities? hmmMm"
You probably don't know Spanish and Portuguese grammar. There are lots of important differences! Portuguese has peculiar tenses which don't exist in Spanish and other basic differences...
French is a fabulous language!
"The difference between Danish and Swedish debunks the theory that substratum is 100% responsible for the phonemic variances between languages. A Frisian "influence" is not a substratum, more like a superstatum if anything. "
-- Exactly my opinion.
"Could it be that the Spanish and Portuguese just wanted to differentiate themselves from each other for the sake of national selfhood?"
-- Portuguese and Spanish originate from neighbouring areas in Northern Spain, Galicia and Cantabria. For centuries both kept on an expansion course southwards during the Reconquista. This made them very self-assertive in some way, preventing them from merging (similarly, the 'Drang nach Osten' and the German Hansa gave Plattdeutsch/Low German a powerful momentum in the Middle-Ages ; the decline of the Hansa and Martin Luther's Bible were two simultaneaous factors that ultimately reduced Low Saxon to a dialect).
Languages, like all living entities, tend to diverge over time. This is only partially balanced by punctual convergences. The oldest forms of Portuguese and Castillan were certainly quite similar in the beginning, but their minor differences were continually enhanced by a process of self-amplification.
Unlike all other Scandinavian tongues, Danish has punctually converged with Western Germanic languages by dropping all secondary stresses within words (which makes Danish prosody distinctively über-Germanic). An small difference in the beginning, but the start of a cumulative process that induced en enormous difference in the end.
<<PORTUGUESE VOCABULARY
From Iberian:
abóbora "pumpkin"
arroio "brook, stream"
baía "bay" (cf. Basque ibai 'river')
balsa "ferry"
barranco "ravine"
barro "clay"
bezerro "1 year-old calf"
bizarro "quaint, bizar"
cama "bed"
carrasco "executioner"
cavaco "small woods"
esquerdo "left" (cf. Basque ezker 'left')
lousa "slate"
manteiga "butter"
mata, mato "woods"
morro "hill"
mouta, moita "bush"
sapo "toad"
sarna "scabbies"
seara "crops"
tojo "gorse"
várzea "meadow"
veiga "meadow, grassland">>
The Iberians never inhabited Portugal, so how come is Iberian the substratum of Portuguese? It's well attested that esquerda passed into Portuguese during the Middle Ages, when the Portuguese language was already formed. It happened the same with the Spanish word izquierda, but the difference is that Spanish does have a true basque substratum because Spanish itself is an evolution of the Vulgar Latin spoken by the Basque tribes. That is the reason why Spanish has simplified phonology compared to Portuguese or French. There were Basques or Iberians in Portugal? No, there weren't. The words you cite may be loanwords that passed from Spanish or Basque, but that is not a substratum. Spanish has loads of English loanwords and that does not make English a substratum of Spanish.
Also ,I would like to point out that many of the words you cite are not even Basque and much less Iberian, they are simply of unkown origin like "manteiga" (SP manteca). "Cama" is a Latin word (according to RAE) and so on.
"Portuguese is very nasal and has a lot of vowels because of its Celtic substratum ."
-- Celtic substratum in Portugal... That's too funny!
Hey, smart boy, Occitan dialects in Auvergne and Limousin have no nasals. Celtic presence is an established fact there (unlike in Portugal).
Tell me, how can you explain that?
Portuguese nasals are a specifically local evolution, totally unrelated to French and the alleged 'Celtic substrate'.
Hey, smart boy, Occitan dialects in Auvergne and Limousin have no nasals. Celtic presence is an established fact there (unlike in Portugal).
Curiously the only tribe called Celtici by the Romans was one in Portugal. Take a look at a map of the Iberian Peninsula in Pre-Roman times. Southern France was more influenced by the Aquitanii and the Iberians than by the Celts.
French sound like a Romance language.
French sounds like French. There is no other way to describe it. It sounds like no other Romance language. It sounds like French.
To me, it basically sounds like the person is about to gag while they are talking. Like they're talking from deep in their throats while puckering their lips at the same time. It's not like the other Romance languages, like Italian and Spanish, which sound much clearer. It's also quite nasal. So it sounds like a throat congestion mixed with a stuffy nose through puckered lips. It's still a very pretty language though. :)
From the perspective of a native English speaker who knows very little French.