villages of France

PARISIEN   Mon May 18, 2009 10:02 pm GMT
"Blue Slate Rooves on white buildings" (or buildings made of pale or greyish stones): this is typical for allegedly "Celtic" regions, Bretagne, French MidWest, Wallonia, high plateaux of Auvergne, but also Scotland, Wales and North-Western England.

The dominant material around Paris (the so-called Parisian Basin) is the brown flat tile. It is in my view the Frenchiest solution, but exists also in most of England (and only in France, England and USA). Actually there is not much difference with slate roof (it just depended on local availability of materials), both substitued thatched roofs.

The "Latin" half cylindrical tiles on rather flat roofs are typical for the whole Mediterranean area, but for some reason this solution was also maintained in Lorraine, including German speaking areas, and also in bordering districts of Germany, Luxembourg and (German speaking) Belgium! No satisfactory explanation has ever been given for this anomaly, other than Roman military presence bust have been considerable in that area.

"Germanic" steep roofs are prevalent of course in Alsace, with beaver-tail tiles, but also in the Alpine region. I know a small town in Eastern Bourgogne where "Latin, "Celtic' and "Germanic" roofs all are present side by side. Which I find mindboggling, knowing that carpenters guilds with different technical traditions were active on the same spot. (BTW Geneva is really the heart of Europe: some old mansions are definitely Italian style, the Calvin era quarter is absolutely "Celtic"/French, and there are typical Germanic antique farmhouses (just like in the black Forest or in Norway) nearby).

Oh, and I forgot: the large light pink area North of Paris is made of Germanic roofs with so called "pannes flamandes" (Flemish panes?), you know those large S-shaped tiles, which are standard all along the North Sea and Baltic shores (including New Anglia) up to Northern Sweden. The Dutch even built some buildings in that style in New Amsterdam/NYC.
guest guest   Tue May 19, 2009 12:05 am GMT
" In the foregoing photos, I was looking for the Blue Slate Rooves on white buildings, typical (in my mind) of what constitutes the quintessential French look. "

I think there are some reasons that this kind of vernacular architecture is often considered to be THE tipically french by many (while it is not the most spread):

- Since renaissance this kind of roofs have been widely used in the aristocratic architecture. Probably firslty due to the "Châteaux de la Loire" (the kings renaissance hunting residences in Loire valley). From there, they were systematically used in the residences in and around Paris (while the common architecture was still flat clay tile in that region).

- In 19th century, these roofings were used in Paris (mixed with tipically parisian zinc roofs, while in the parisian region outside Paris city there are not really) and in most regions for city halls or other offical buildings (including in southern cities like Bordeaux, Marseille, etc.)

- Another reason might also be the use of the name "french style" in the US to speak of almost any building that have slate-looking roofs, even if there isn't many other real french features in it.





" The dominant material around Paris (the so-called Parisian Basin) is the brown flat tile. "

Yes, the funny thing is that in Paris itself it is not widely spread. Only some buildings in the older districts still have these roofings.




" It is in my view the Frenchiest solution, but exists also in most of England (and only in France, England and USA). "

Actually it seems that many people here seemed to agree that it was in their eyes the frenchiest feature. Well the fact that it surrounds Paris area might be a reason.
In England, they are not really widespread (some of the older buildings), most of them tend to be a bit different, especially in colors, the french ones often being more "bronwish" than greyish as they do in England.





" The "Latin" half cylindrical tiles on rather flat roofs are typical for the whole Mediterranean area "

Yes, and in my opinion, what give the "mediterranean" flavour of it is as much its flatness than its tile shape and color. In fact this kind of roof is made of "tegula" (where "tuile/tela/tile" comes from): it is the cylindric part. In Roman times it was only used to be the cover of "imbrex tile" (which is a flat tile). With times the tegula was used reversed to in order to use the imbrex tile.




" but for some reason this solution was also maintained in Lorraine, including German speaking areas, and also in bordering districts of Germany, Luxembourg and (German speaking) Belgium! "

I knew for Lorraine (at least for some of the ones that remained in rural areas), since in cities and suburbs most have been removed by "tuiles mecaniques" (the ones we see in a lot of suburbian areas, especially around Paris, which are also flat roofs, with red tiles that was a sort of industrial adaptation of roman tiles, but not really good lookin in my opinion*)

In Belgium, Luxembourg and German bordering areas I didn't know. Where precisely have you seen some exemple of roman-tile villages in these areas? I'd be curious to see them




" I know a small town in Eastern Bourgogne where "Latin, "Celtic' and "Germanic" roofs all are present side by side. Which I find mindboggling, knowing that carpenters guilds with different technical traditions were active on the same spot. (BTW Geneva is really the heart of Europe: some old mansions are definitely Italian style, the Calvin era quarter is absolutely "Celtic"/French, and there are typical Germanic antique farmhouses (just like in the black Forest or in Norway) nearby). "


yes, I agree, the Geneva Lake area is a sort of mix of different Europes.
I find this exemple quite original of mixings: you can find roman-tiles-flat roofs mixed with other flat-tiles-strong-roofs in a village like Yvoire in Savoie.


I find quite interesting those places were are mixed different ambiances that can be seen as not fitting together. Southern burgondy is a good exemple of that: in a few kilometers you pass from completly northern-styles roofs to roman-styles ones in a few kilomoters, with some narrow mixed villages in-between: Tournus is a good exemple of that mix.

http://www.france-voyage.com/visuals/departements/saone-et-loire/tournus-1.jpg
http://mlmp.free.fr/images/mlmp/2008-06/tournus_et_philibert.jpg

In some of these narrow transition areas, some don't even hesitate to mix both kinds of roofs:
http://annuaire.maisondhotes.net/image/11397facade_sud_est_1-web.jpg

Another funny divide is the Loire rive in Nantes: While on the north bank of the city everything is made in slate, giving a very "celtic" ambiance, once you pass the bridge to the southern bank you can find suddenly roman roofs that suddenly give a southern ambiance:
Nantes city center: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Nantes_-_cath%C3%A9drale_vue_du_ch%C3%A2teau.jpg
15 kilometers away: http://sophie-g.net/photo/build/pct/cliss.jpg
http://www.ancenis-immobilier.fr/images/monuments/Clisson/2001_11_03_Clisson_01.jpg

even concerning the modern houses this is true: while in Nantes northern suburbs the houses would be like that:
http://www.proprietesauborddeleau.com/image/galerie/TS2708/100_5377.jpg
In Nantes southern suburbs, 2km away, they will look like this:
http://www.nord-loire-transactions.com/image/galerie/TS3128/DSC04708.jpg



" "Blue Slate Rooves on white buildings" (or buildings made of pale or greyish stones): this is typical for allegedly "Celtic" regions, Bretagne, French MidWest, Wallonia, high plateaux of Auvergne, but also Scotland, Wales and North-Western England. "

Yes, but this is important to precise that it has not much really to see with being "celtic" in the historical/cultural/linguistic meaning. Actually those kinds of architectural characteristics are more present due to their adaptation to a very oceanic climate and to the presence of the slates in the ground.

This is true for those regions from Scotland to Galicia and Asturias, passing by northwestern France, which happen to claim some degree of celticness, but this is actually not related to the architecture.

Asturian village in Spain:
http://www.campoamor.net/images/navia/puerto_de_vega_1.jpg
it is interesting to notice that, contrary to what they are in Northwestern France, those roofs are quite flat like roman-tile roofs.

Spain, outside of its northern coasts has also a use of slates, especially concerning aristocratic residences, chateaux in Madrid region.

http://www.igougo.com/photos/journal_photos/madrid_plaza_mayor1.jpg
http://fotos.euroresidentes.com/fotos/Madrid/Palacio_Real_Almudena_Plaza_Mayor/images/Madrid_Plaza_de_la_Villa.jpg
http://www.feelmadrid.com/photo032.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/La_Granja_Palacio.jpg
(probably some influence of the bourbons in the last case)
cnalbus   Tue May 19, 2009 12:32 am GMT
Quintessentially French (to the untrained eye):

http://fr.structurae.de/photos/index.cfm?JS=68738
Guest   Tue May 19, 2009 8:58 am GMT
rep   Tue May 19, 2009 9:08 am GMT
"Blue Slate Rooves on white buildings" (or buildings made of pale or greyish stones): this is typical for allegedly "Celtic" regions, Bretagne, French MidWest, Wallonia, high plateaux of Auvergne, but also Scotland, Wales and North-Western England.
Wallonia is not "allegedly "Celtic"",it is mixed "Celtic-Germanic" region.
guest guest   Tue May 19, 2009 9:54 am GMT
" Wallonia is not "allegedly "Celtic"",it is mixed "Celtic-Germanic" region. "

It would be good that one time people stop to use linguistical terms to speak of supposed "ethnicities". There have never been such a thing as a germanic or celtic ethnicity outiside of been groups defined by their language. The celtic languages at a time were spread in almost all western Europe: the people was definitly not looking like the same in all those places, from Spain to Scotland, From Austria to Britanny, passing by southern germany (do we say that Germany is not Germanic but germano-celtic because it had a celtic and a speaking past?)... All this has not meaning, esepcially concerning peoples that have mix together since milleniums. What define a celtic, germanic, romance, slavic, is the LANGUAGE.
Wallonia is not celtic or Celtic-germanic but romance. What is germanic or celtic are some of the far away ancestors of the local people that mixed for centuries with peoples form other places, including other countries such as Nethrlands, France, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Poland, Morocco, etc This gave the wallons.




" "Blue Slate Rooves on white buildings" (or buildings made of pale or greyish stones): this is typical for allegedly "Celtic" regions, Bretagne, French MidWest, Wallonia, high plateaux of Auvergne, but also Scotland, Wales and North-Western England. "

Je dirais plutôt french north-west, que french midwest. Pour moi le "mid-west" ce serait plutôt le Poitou-Charentes, or cette région, surtout à partir d'une ligne Nantes Poitiers a déjà en grande partie troqué ses ardoises pour des tuiles romanes, tout en gardant les façades très claires tipiques de la cote Atlantique. ex: la belle région du marais poitevin (vraiment au milieu de l'ouest de la France):
http://www.linternaute.com/sortir/nature/photo/le-marais-poitevin/image/07-weekend-nature-298058.jpg
guest guest   Tue May 19, 2009 10:20 am GMT
" Those Spanish buildings are Habsburg style, not Bourbon. "


No. As I said I was speaking about the last one, which is definitly bourbon-like. It actually was build by the first king of bourbon dynasty in Spain: Felipe V, grand son of Louis XIV, he wanted a small Versailles-like hunting residence.
Guest   Tue May 19, 2009 10:33 am GMT
Ah, you meant the last building. It doesn't look completely French style like anyways and resembles somewhat the rest, it's a sort of mix of Bourbon and Habsburg fashions. The Palacio Real resembles more Versailles:

http://www.fundacioncarolina.es/es-ES/vivir/Actividades/PublishingImages/Palacio%20Real.jpg
guest guest   Tue May 19, 2009 11:52 am GMT
I was always amused when I visited My American friends, to discover what was their idea of " 'french' architecture". When I first arrive their house looked like this:
http://z.about.com/d/architecture/1/0/U/m/french-normandy-3086002.jpg

They told me, "it should not be unusual for you, it's a french house"...
It took me time to realise that it wasn't a joke, for me it was absolutly tipically American. But to them it was like "living in Normandy". I was asking myself in what part of Normandy Am I supposed to find this kind of house! I don't know... ;)

later, surfing on internet I discover that for American house sellers, "french style houses" is a name that have been invented to speak about almost all houses with slate roofs (while slate roofs can be found in most of western Europe), whatever if the other features might be Victorian, English, German, and finally they are tipical north American.

http://www.amazingplans.com/viewimg.php?item_id=14839&image=picture

http://www.kabelhouseplans.com/images/image.php?image=28.jpg&width=600

this one is even funnier:
http://www.arizona4pinoys.com/images/PREfontainebleau.jpg

I understand that the vision of France that some might have in North America might be distorted by those American fashions that use European country names to their styles for commercial reasons. One must not expect fo find it in Europe! ;)

The inversed way, I think that most Americans would associate roman tiles with what is called "Spanish-style" in their country.



Not surprinsingly, from that point of view, a village with roman tiles can't be french, but should necesserally look Spanish. It is actually the case of some of the pictures I posted


I think that is the reason why quite tipical french villages from various regions are thought by many to be "Spanish/Italian styles"

Such as

In Provence (south east)
http://www.villagesdefrance.free.fr/dept/dept_images/ph83_tourrettes.jpg

In Lyonnais (central east)
http://www.oingt.com/su01.jpg

In Catalonia (south Spanish border)
http://trip.weburger.com/img/france/collioure_jpg.jpg

In Bordelais (south west)
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/12/fa/5d/st-emilion-plaza.jpg

In Charentes (central west coast)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Panorama_Saintes.JPG

In corsica
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7379/calvi18yc6.jpg

In languedoc
http://www.immobilier-mauguio.com/images/mauguio.jpg
funny detail: notice the tipical 19th century city hall, that seems out of context in this village!

In Auvergne (central mountains)
http://legendiagoth.l.e.pic.centerblog.net/i0m87e36.jpg

In Pays basque (south west spanish border)
http://www.a-gites.com/img/1202566380-85710.jpg
nearbovinian   Tue May 19, 2009 4:50 pm GMT
<<I was always amused when I visited My American friends, to discover what was their idea of " 'french' architecture". When I first arrive their house looked like this:>>

Actually, all those places look "foreign", except for the red brick house in the drawing. Compare them to more typical "American" houses:

http://www.appletreerealty.biz/property.php?key=265&type=COUNTRY

http://www.timberlandproperties.com/catskillsrealestate/p33019.html
guest guest   Wed May 20, 2009 10:26 am GMT
" ctually, all those places look "foreign", except for the red brick house in the drawing. Compare them to more typical "American" houses: "


I wanted to say not that these exemples are the tipical American traditional house (which of course they are not), but that they are a kind of houses that was born on American ground, and probably exist only in north America - That this so-called "french style house" is fundamentally a fantasic idea of how look a french house seen by American house-sellers (I guess most of them have never studied architecture).

This is what we could call a pseudo-traditional-northwestern-french- inspired American architecture.

The psuedo-traditional architecture in France is of course quite different; usually very simple (because it derives from rural housing, while American french-inspired architecture usually wants to make it very complicated, with multitudes of decorative elements that are supposed to evoque constructive features that can be found in medieval castles, chateaus, palaces, but not in houses.

French house-sellers, whatever they are industrial or artisanal, generally make these kind of houses, depending of the region:

- north: http://www.micimmo.com/photos_annonces/annonce_464_3838/100402pa.jpg (more in north west), or
http://core.naxos-fr.net/imagesBien/202/256/trans21_4_202_256_11217_1_1.jpg
(more in central north)

- south:
http://www.1sthomeexchange.com/images10/13386_0216333010838991.jpg
Top scorer   Wed May 20, 2009 12:24 pm GMT
<<I know a small town in Eastern Bourgogne where "Latin, "Celtic' and "Germanic" roofs all are present side by side.<<

:-) ...and I know a place where "Latin", "Celtic", and "Germanic" tin openers are used side by side!
Maurice Chevalier   Wed May 20, 2009 2:12 pm GMT
Top scorer Wed May 20, 2009 12:24 pm GMT
<<I know a small town in Eastern Bourgogne where "Latin, "Celtic' and "Germanic" roofs all are present side by side.<<

____________________________________

From Asterix books I know that nos ancetres les Gaulois used thatched roof made of straw. Do you have pictures of such villages, too?
Rollon   Wed May 20, 2009 3:55 pm GMT
Thatched roofs are unfortunately becoming rarer but there are still many in northwestern France, especially in Normandy, as well as in England and Denmark:

http://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/dossiers/envphoto/valides/ETE2007_1189664691.jpg

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/10021130.jpg
Maurice Chevalier   Wed May 20, 2009 9:07 pm GMT
Rollon Wed May 20, 2009 3:55 pm GMT
Thatched roofs are unfortunately becoming rarer but there are still many in northwestern France, especially in Normandy, as well as in England and Denmark:

http://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/dossiers/envphoto/valides/ETE2007_1189664691.jpg

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/10021130.jpg
____________________________________

In the pictures, the walls are not like in the book - isn´t this kind of wall construction typical "Germanic"? So the houses have "Celtic" roof and "Germanic" walls?