Don't learn Traditional Chinese characters, but Peh-oe-ji
Mandarin has borrowed so many Japanese vocabularies, for example,
For example, "Law", "Constitution", "Government", "Philosophy", etc.
In fact, 3/4 of Mandarin vocabularies are from Japanese.
So, if "Tionghoa" are proud of his Chinese culture, why can he allow his language using so many Japanese vocabularies or are Chinese ppl lazy to create vocabularies?
So, if you Chinese can use so many Japanese vocabularies, why don't let your language being Cyrillized or Romanized?
Realtrue~~~In fact, 3/4 of Mandarin vocabularies are from Japanese.
Re: No, your statistics is much exaggerated, the vocabularies that borrowed from Japanese is approximately 3% of Mandarin, absolutely not 3/4.
the terms from philosophy, law, science,mathematics,technology,religion,politics etc in Mandarin are most borrowed from Japanese. So, it should be that about over 75% of Mandarin vocabularies are from Japanese.
Realtrue~~~So, it should be that about over 75% of Mandarin vocabularies are from Japanese.
It's certainly your right to assign freely the proportion that borrowed from Japanese at your pleasure.
We all know that the Japanese got their writing system from China, but what about Japan’s influence on the Chinese language?
The Japan Times has an interesting article today about Japanese words that have made their way into the Chinese language. Here’s an example list from the article:
Examples of Japanese words adopted into Chinese
直接 chokusetsu (direct)
注射 chūsha (injection)
出口 deguchi (exit)
伝染病 densenbyō (contagious disease)
電子 denshi (electron)
動脈 dōmyaku (artery)
原子 denshi (atom)
百貨店 yakkaten (department store)
入口 iriguchi (entrance)
時間 jikan (time)
決算 kessan (closing of accounts)
企業 kigyō (business)
小型 kogata (compact)
工業 kōgyō (industry)
広告 kōkoku (advertisement)
国際 kokusai (international)
空間 kǖkan (space)
民族 minzoku (people)
農民 nōmin (farmer)
大型 ōgata (large scale)
歴史 rekishi (history)
劣勢 ressei (inferiority)
政党 seitō (political party)
社会 shakai (society)
市場 shijō (market)
自然科学 shizen kagaku (natural science)
所得税 shotokuzei (income tax)
出版 shuppan (publishing)
主体 shutai (main subject)
相対 sōtai (relative)
体育 taiiku (physical education)
体操 taisō (calesthenics)
投資 tōshi (investment)
優勢 yǖsei (superiority)
絶対 zettai (absolute)
also
開始", "政府", "图书馆", "警察
電話 化學﹐物理﹐生物
副詞
To: Realtrue Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:37 am GMT
1, Only about 1,000 vocabularies were borrowed from Japanese, I 'm not sure whether the proportion exceeds 3% or not (according to the poster --- Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:15 am GMT), but I'm firmly convinced, it's full of exaggerations to say that 3/4 of Mandarin vocabularies are from Japanese. You can ask your Chinese teacher about this issue.
2, Those vocabularies that borrowed from Japanese are actually not Japanese itself, they're basically still Mandarin or other dialects, Japanese translated a lot of scientific, technologic, or philosophic words in Occident with Chinese that borrowed from ancient China, so they're some Chinese vocabularies that created by Japanese people. Apart from those modern terminology (around 1,000 pieces), in fact, we Chinese don't have to create too many long vocabularies at all costs, just because generally Chinese isn't such a similar language to your western languages in many respects. It's hard to say.
To: Postyourtongue's posts
Please count all borrowed words, then tell me the exact amount or its proportion.
Those foreigners, who've learned both Chinese and Japanese, could have understood that, those borrowed vocabularies from Japanese, would mostly be able to explained well by Chinese characters themselves, that's to say, we can even know their meanings without learning their accurate pronunciation. Perhaps, it's also an advantage of Chinese character itself.
For example,
猪=pig.
肉=meat.
猪肉=pigs' meat, meat of pigs. (but in English, 猪肉=pork)
In English, you have to learn 3 vocabularies,
But in Chinese, you need to learn 2 characters,
Which is easier for you to learn? Combination of characters, or fixed vocabularies?
In the word 百貨店 there was a "h" missing in the transliteration. It should be written "hyakkaten".
@Tionghua: Please don't use the word "those foreigners" because it looks like the racist "gaijin" policy I've seen in Japan whereby people ASSUME foreigners can't learn their language but in my opinion Japanese was the EASIEST language to learn and Chinese isn't much different because I understand many words just by looking at them.
"Which is easier for you to learn? Combination of characters, or fixed vocabularies?"
That's very relative. Characters are similar to knowing Latin and Greek when dealing with words that are based on these languages. If you know the character then it's good otherwise one will learn the language just like it was in the past: by LISTENING.
I believe that characters took one's natural ability to read through context.
I remember someone gave an example of the numerous meanings of "SET", which can be done without problems. Why can't the Chinese guess the meanings of words without overly depending on characters?
The reason why one needs 猪 to express zhu 1 is to distinguish it from 朱，株 for instance and show that Chinese is an ambiguous language. However, no one would understand 猪肉 as 株肉 or 朱肉. It's a matter of common sense and CONTEXT. If Chinese were impossible to learn without characters how do you explain children of Chinese nationals born abroad who speak FLUENT Chinese? I used to attend Chinese classes to Taiwanese-Brazilians in Rio de Janeiro and they spoke both Mandarin and Taiwanese without knowing a SINGLE character. I was the only student in class who knew all characters but spoke almost no Chinese...
As for the English words you quoted, MEAT has the same sound as MEET but NOBODY would think of PIG MEET neither a character for distinguishing both is necessary.
I LOVE kanjis but they require TOO MUCH time to learn...That's a hindrance to more global acceptance of the Chinese language and I think it's a pity!!!
To: J.C.
Thank you for your reply, and it's no offense to use "those foreigners", I'm very sorry.
Yes, nobody would mix up 猪肉(pork) and 朱肉(red meat) based on duplicate context, but there are still a lot of factors that perhaps sound unable to be understood instantly by readers and listeners in formal and rigorous occasions. If possible, please try to get some books that written by Chinese master Mr. 钱穆 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%27ien_Mu). His articles may be only a representative style in a world of complicated compositions. People were not only born to speak everyday Oral Chinese, but also to speak or listen to something confused between Wenyan and Baihua, since none of Chinese languages (mandarin, cantonese, minnanese) is performed only on the basis of Modern vocabularies without any literary remains. I ever emphasize that, the real soul of Chinese writing system should be single character, instead of modernistic, permanent and inflexible vocabularies. One thing you must know is that, except the most common oral cases, we still need to interchange ideas, feelings, viewpoints and judgments. Would you kindly read through several books that written by Mr. 钱穆 in your free time or holidays? Then you could probably find out something that cannot be completely Latinised or Cyrillised due to the problems of serious confusion. And I recommend you to read <国史大纲>, <论语新解>, or <中国历代政治得失> at the beginning, and try to make a few chapters into latin alphabet system.
If Chinese can't understand the mandarin which is completely written in Latin alphabet, how can dear western learners comprehend those mandarin very well? I wondered.
Tionghoa , why are the following sentences understood INSTANTANEOUSLY?
I am going to SET the table.
I bought a SET of wheels.
John won the second SET.
I SET the dial to 23.
The sun SET.
The SET was my favourite part of the play.
Are you SET to begin?
He was dead SET on killing his neighbour.
SET theory is an important branch of mathematics.
The glue will need 24 hours to SET.
The madman SET the building on fire.
John SET up the apparatus.
The authorities SET the regulations for the new import tax.
He SET a record.
The policeman SET his dog on the thief.
The doctor SET the broken bone.
The film is SET in Africa.
etc...
Or is it necessary to introduce characters to English?
I am going to 国 the table.
I bought a 史 of wheels.
John won the second 大.
I 纲 the dial to 23.
The sun 解.
etc
That makes it harder, not easier.
Anyway, no one's saying characters should be removed, the cultural reason is a good reason to keep them. We're just saying Chinese works without them, yes maybe it is ugly and inelegant, but it still functions as a language.