Lingua brazilera

Joao   Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:52 pm GMT
«Olhe minha filha....tu já pensou

has nothing to do with pronunciation but syntax, this sentence is impossible in Portugal but common in Recife or Fortaleza Brazilian Portuguese, even in informal speech of educated people. »

Is this sentence impossible in Portugal? The tense is wrong, but if there's a wide use of this tense, it can be considered correct as coloquial and regional speech.

It's either: "Você já pensou?" (formal, or Brazilian), or "Tu já pensaste?" (informal or EP informal).
Bruzundanguense   Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:04 pm GMT
<< Is this sentence impossible in Portugal? The tense is wrong, but if there's a wide use of this tense, it can be considered correct as coloquial and regional speech.

It's either: "Você já pensou?" (formal, or Brazilian), or "Tu já pensaste?" (informal or EP informal). >>

The tense is correct, it's the person inflection which is wrong. And you're just admitting that in Portugal this is a gross mistake no educated speaker would make. Or is there any Portuguese dialect in which 'tu' is used with the third person conjugation? In Brazil in most places (though not all places) where 'tu' is the preferred second person singular pronoun, verbs are conjugated with the third person, not the second person: tu pensa, tu pensou, tu pensava, etc. And this is not 'slang' or a feature of uneducated speakers, it's the way everyone speaks. I'm not one of those "brazilianists", but it's silly to deny that Brazilian dialects are clearly syntactically different from Standard Portuguese.
Minnie   Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:38 am GMT
Also, in Southeastern Brazil where VOCÊ is used, whe imperative has the indicative form, and LHE is not used, but TE:
''Não chora senão eu não te compro mais nada''

In many parts of Northeastern Brazil, they use both TU (with 3rd person verbal form) and VOCÊ, and LHE and subjunctive form of infinitive are preferred so the sentence: ''Olhe, minha filha, eu lhe juro que tu não entendeu direito'' is common.
amo-te   Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:07 am GMT
but it's silly to deny that Brazilian dialects are clearly syntactically different from Standard Portuguese

That's true!
Lingwist   Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:10 pm GMT
Yes, syntax and phonetics are the main fields of differences between Brazilian and Continental Portuguese, and not vocabulary which is many times falsely presumed.
Joao   Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:40 pm GMT
«The tense is correct, it's the person inflection which is wrong. And you're just admitting that in Portugal this is a gross mistake no educated speaker would make.»

Bruzundanguense

According to the grammar rules, yes it's wrong. But it's clear that it's a regional Brazilian dialect. Dialects are accepted as correct, because they are part of the culture of a people.
It's clear Brazilian Portuguese so it's accepted as that. Some grammar freaks here may not like it, alas, but the majority finds that quite charming.

No one speaks a language according only to the grammar books.
Custom and everyday use is the most important thing in the development of a language.

Nós também temos muitas falas regionais em Portugal. Também não falamos correctamente (corretamente) e usamos calão (slang). É normal.
fullstop   Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:32 pm GMT
The apology of a creole. Dumb posts.
Língua brasileira   Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:34 pm GMT
Língua brasileira, with an "s" not with a "z".
jana   Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:16 pm GMT
/brazi'lera/ it's how it's pronounced, and until 18th century spellings like Brazil (and analizar) were used, then in 19th ''s'' spelling in introduced...
Guest   Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:40 pm GMT
<< The apology of a creole. Dumb posts. >>

Doesn't even know what a creole is. Dumb poster.
pintarroxinho   Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:20 pm GMT
Acho que o portugues luso é a lingua mais bonita do mundo. Também Portugal é un pais muito lindo e variado, mas é uma pena que faça fronteira com a Espanha...
looling Joao   Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:58 pm GMT
»<< The apology of a creole. Dumb posts. >>

Doesn't even know what a creole is. Dumb poster.»

What about the diffenrent dialects of Englisyh, spoken in various parts of the UK and the US?
They can be considered creole English, can't they? They can be considered correct forms of speaking in a cultural perspective, can't they?
Ebonics   Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:25 pm GMT
<<What about the diffenrent dialects of Englisyh, spoken in various parts of the UK and the US? >>

WAT BOUT DA different dialects of English, spoken in various parts of DA UK AN DA US.


<<They can be considered creole English, can't they? T>>

DEY can be considered creole English, can't DEY.


<<They can be considered correct forms of speaking in a cultural perspective, can't they? >>


DEY can be considered correct forms of speakiN in a cultural perspective, can't DEY?
Ebonics   Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:31 pm GMT
<<,Bruzundanguense

According to the grammar rules, yes it's wrong. But it's clear that it's a regional Brazilian dialect. Dialects are accepted as correct, because they are part of the culture of a people.
It's clear Brazilian Portuguese so it's accepted as that. Some grammar freaks here may not like it, alas, but the majority finds that quite charming.

No one speaks a language according only to the grammar books.
Custom and everyday use is the most important thing in the development of a language. >>


AccordIN to DA grammar rules, YEAH IT WRONG. But it BE clear DAT IT BE a regional Brazilian dialect. Dialects BE accpeted as correct COZ DEY BE part of DA culture of DA people.
It BE clear Brazilian Portuguese so IT BE ACCEPTED as DAT. Some grammar MOFOS here MIGHT not like DAT, BUT FUCK DAT YO, DA majority finD it PRETTY charmiN.

No one speak DA language accordiN only to DA grammar books. Custom and everyday use BE DA most important FING in DA development of DA language.
kevin   Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:56 pm GMT
Também Portugal é un pais muito lindo e variado, mas é uma pena que faça fronteira com a Espanha...

---
Unlike people from Portugal, Brazilians love Spain:


"amo portugal" site:br 1.170
''amo a espanha'' site:br 3.520


''adoro portugal'' site:br 554
''adoro a espanha'' site:br 7.080

''odeio portugal'' site:br 164
''odeio a espanha'' site:br 2


Sorry Portugal, you lose ;)