The difference(s) between Old Dutch and Old Frankish
rep Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:05 pm GMT
There was group of Frankish tribes, not one tribe:
You are right. The Frankish was include a group of small tribes before Migration Period. The Burgundian, Frankish and Gar-Dena are the major three groups of peoples in Migration Period.
opinion Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:24 pm GMT
Gar-Dena means Spear-Danes in poem of "Beowulf".
poet > poem > Das Nibelungenlied
minstrel > epic > Beowulf
rep, maine, opinion,
Did you have the words of Old Frankish about "snake, python, gecko, etc. We can make a comparison with Dutch and Hokkienese.
Dutch: slang (snake)
Old Hokkienese: sian-lang (a species of pythons).
Modern Hokkienese: sian-lang (gecko)
In Chinchew (Choan-chiu), there has an old legend (a short oral literature) about a mountain where was living a very big python and it make dangerous to people. One day a brave Shaman was going to the hill of python and make white magic with the python. At last, the python surrendered to Shaman and it changed to a gecko losing its dangerous to villigers.
So, in Old Hokkienese sian-lang (in Peh-oe-ji) was mean a species of pythons. And in Modern Hokkienese sian-lang means the gecko.
This word was spoken in some Chinchew vernacular. Sian-lang have the meanings: 1. a species of pythons. 2. merciful people. 3. gecko.
<<The term Low German was more widely used in the past, but this is no longer considered politically correct as people in the Netherlands generally do not like to be associated as being German. As Low Saxon-Low Franconian, the name avoids sovereign national associations with either The concept Low German was first pioneered by German linguists, who found that German dialects in the North of Germany were quite different from dialects in the South of the country (see High German consonant shift), as they continued their research, they found that dialects of Dutch, and the Dutch language had a large number of things in common with the dialects in Northern Germany, and subsequently placed them in the Low German group.Later 2 subgroups of Low German (which was now the supposed ancestor of the 2 subgroups) were created: Low Saxon, mainly Low German dialects in Germany, and Low Franconian, mainly Low German dialects in the Netherlands and Flanders.To this day no evidence is found on Low Saxon and Low Franconian ever having a common ancestor, and in linguistics the term Low German is mainly used to indentify West Germanic language who have not experienced the High German consonant shift, or the Ingvaeonic nasal spirant law.the Netherlands or Germany
>> The term Low German was more widely used in the past, but this is no longer considered politically correct as people in the Netherlands generally do not like to be associated as being German.
Later 2 subgroups of Low German (which was now the supposed ancestor of the 2 subgroups) were created: Low Saxon, mainly Low German dialects in Germany, and Low Franconian, mainly Low German dialects in the Netherlands and Flanders. >>
In Germany there are many different dialects and every village have their accents. Because these peoples are come from 360 subgroups whom were service as the infantry in "german" (rapid react corps) in ancient time. The Burgendians, Dutch and Frankish are form the infantry force and later these infantrymen settled in Austria, Germany, Netherland and France mainly. In ancient Netherland, there may be a place where the Dutch, Franconian and other subgroups mixed together. So the Low Saxon and Low Franconian are so similar.
<<In ancient Netherland, there may be a place where the Dutch, Franconian and other subgroups mixed together>>
You confuse definitions. "Dutch" is a definition of standardized German Low Franconian variety.
German (rapid react corps)
A. Snake Formation:
Front Group _ Varangian, Norse, Rus, Swedes, etc.
Middle Group _ Anglo, Saxon, Jutes, Frisian, etc.
Rear Group - Vandals, Gothes, Lombards, Suebi, etc.
Front Army _ Burgundians, etc.
Middle Army _ Dutch, etc.
Rear Army _ Frankish, etc.
B. Geese Formation:
Left Wing Army _ Middle Army _ Right Wing Army
Left Wing Army _ Burgundians, etc.
Middle Army _ Dutch, etc.
Right Wing Army _ Frankish, etc.
Left Wing Group _ Middle Group _ Right Wing Group
Left Wing Group: Varangian (vice commander), Norse, Rus, Swedes, etc.
Middle Group: Anglo, Saxon (commander), Jutes, Frisian, etc.
Right Wing Group: Vandals (vice commander), Gothes, Lombards, Suebi, etc.
minstrel,how is Latin name for "Dutch"?
Sorry,I want to ask what is Latin name for "Dutch"?
what does dutch have anything to do with franks? i thought the franks were french
oh.... i see. franks were mainly just the rulers of france and gave their name and a few of their words to it. interesting. so charlemagne was essentially dutch lol
hmm... come to think of it that might explain why the french accent in general sounds so different from other romance languages. it almost has a slight dutch feel to it, maybe from the frankish influence
> rep Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:42 pm GMT
"Dutch" is Middle English term for Middle Low German
(including Low Saxon and Low Franconian dialects). <
The people living in middle age may be know more about Germanic traditions and oral history than modern people. If the "Dutch" is an old term in that times to mean "Low Saxon / Low Franconian". Why the English people in middle age don't use the Saxon or Franconian? Why they choose the Dutch to indicate the people living in Holland?
Let us compare this list about "dove" in the following languages.
Hokkienese: ka-chui, chui, (spotted dove, rufous turtle dove, red turtle dove.)
Old Saxon: dūba,
Old High German: tūba,
Old Norse: dúfa,
The (a). Dutch word "duif" is seem older than (b). Old Saxon word "dūba". In Hokkienese word "chui" can pronounce as "tui" (dui) in some accents. Did any person can provides the "dove" in Frankish?
<<Why the English people in middle age don't use the Saxon or Franconian? Why they choose the Dutch to indicate the people living in Holland?
English people in Middle ages choose the Dutch to indicate people living not only in Holland,but in North Germany too (Low Saxony,Westphalia,Mecklenburg,Danzig and so on).