Erratum: TAKE effort
Russkij jazyk na latinitse
Sander, I'm finding your argument hard to follow. I believe the categories you mention are yes, human and arbitrary but they are legitimate distinctions that people make. How can you say that my culture(s) are the same as yours? I can't speak Dutch and don't understand it and there are things that happen in your culture that I don't do or observe. How can you say that there is no difference between Orthodoxy and Catholicism? Yes, they are both strains of Christianity, but there are philophosophical differences between these two religions, if not basic customary differences.
Ukrajina maje vijty v ĚvroSojuz. Ěvropa intehrujeťśa, i nam Ukrajinćam potribna Łatynkśka abetka. Ja ne kažu ščo treba pokynuty Kyryłyću! Kyryłyću budemo maty, i šče na dovhe vremja, ałe treba nam takož i Łatynku. Inozemci možuť zrozumite mene Łatynkoju, naviť jakščo vony ne rozumijuť Ukrajinśku.
Ukraine-European Union talks will start perhaps in December. Perhaps Ukraine can adopt a Latin script, which could help with travel.
I beleive, even without the any permission, Ukrainians could form some kind of Congress to compile a Latin scripted, and perhaps Ukraine will eventually adopt it as a second script.
Ukraine-European Union talks will start perhaps in December. Perhaps Ukraine can adopt a Latin script, which could help with travel.
I beleive, even without the any permission, Ukrainians could form some kind of Congress to compile a Latin scripted, and perhaps Ukraine will eventually adopt it as a second script.
<<
Ukrajina maje vijty v ĚvroSojuz. Ěvropa intehrujeťśa, i nam Ukrajinćam potribna Łatynkśka abetka. Ja ne kažu ščo treba pokynuty Kyryłyću! Kyryłyću budemo maty, i šče na dovhe vremja, ałe treba nam takož i Łatynku. Inozemci možuť zrozumite mene Łatynkoju, naviť jakščo vony ne rozumijuť Ukrajinśku.>>
Bulgaria is almost in the EU but we haven't adopted the Latin script. With Bulgaria's accession, the Cyrillic will become an official alphabet and will after some time appear on the Euro.
Ukrajina maje vijty v ĚvroSojuz. Ěvropa intehrujeťśa, i nam Ukrajinćam potribna Łatynkśka abetka. Ja ne kažu ščo treba pokynuty Kyryłyću! Kyryłyću budemo maty, i šče na dovhe vremja, ałe treba nam takož i Łatynku. Inozemci možuť zrozumite mene Łatynkoju, naviť jakščo vony ne rozumijuť Ukrajinśku.>>
Bulgaria is almost in the EU but we haven't adopted the Latin script. With Bulgaria's accession, the Cyrillic will become an official alphabet and will after some time appear on the Euro.
maximiliano - Навіть якщо ми введемо латину, іноземці все єдино не зрозуміють абсолютно нічого, крім хіба що спільних слів на кшталт "ресторан" або "аптека".
Try to show your text in 'Ukrainian Latin' to an English speaker and see if he'll understand anything. I bet he won't.
The Greeks haven't adopted the latin script, the Bulgarians haven't, so why in the world should we?
Try to show your text in 'Ukrainian Latin' to an English speaker and see if he'll understand anything. I bet he won't.
The Greeks haven't adopted the latin script, the Bulgarians haven't, so why in the world should we?
It is interesting to see the opinions of Slavic speakers on this subject. In my opinion, with Bulgaria's accession to the EU, from the point of view of tourism, it may be advisable that at least the names of cities be written in Latin script as well for the benefit of the country (but I may be mistaken, of course).
It seems Serbian is the only language whose speakers are content with using Latin as well as Cyrillic, because both scripts were used in ex-Yugoslavia. It is true, even within Serbia and the adjacent territories inhabited by Serbs (mostly in Bosnia), there is increasing pressure to use Cyrillic only, as the authentic Serbian script, although in some areas it is very common to use Latin script.
On the other hand, with Bulgaria's accession, there will be one EU-country with Cyrillic script. This will maybe help people recognise that this aspect of Slavic culture is also part of a common European heritage. For now, many people seem to think that only those countries can be considered as part of Europe in a cultural sense which use Latin script (except for Greece, perhaps). Bulgaria's accession may help in changing this attitude, albeit perhaps not immediately.
It seems Serbian is the only language whose speakers are content with using Latin as well as Cyrillic, because both scripts were used in ex-Yugoslavia. It is true, even within Serbia and the adjacent territories inhabited by Serbs (mostly in Bosnia), there is increasing pressure to use Cyrillic only, as the authentic Serbian script, although in some areas it is very common to use Latin script.
On the other hand, with Bulgaria's accession, there will be one EU-country with Cyrillic script. This will maybe help people recognise that this aspect of Slavic culture is also part of a common European heritage. For now, many people seem to think that only those countries can be considered as part of Europe in a cultural sense which use Latin script (except for Greece, perhaps). Bulgaria's accession may help in changing this attitude, albeit perhaps not immediately.
"Навіть якщо ми введемо латину, іноземці все єдино не зрозуміють абсолютно нічого, крім хіба що спільних слів на кшталт "ресторан" або "аптека".
Try to show your text in 'Ukrainian Latin' to an English speaker and see if he'll understand anything. I bet he won't. "
I have shown my Ukrainian latin to English speakers, and not only English speakers, but I had other Western slavs in mind when I said that. I did not say if Ukraine adopts a Latin script, it will enter the EU. I meant it would be easier for travel.
Most tourists who may come to Ukraine for whatever reason they may have, would perhaps like to know which direction they are going. Using the Latinka, it would spell out Kyjiv or Žmerynka, instead of Київ or Жмеринка. If you show that to an English speaker, which do you think he will figure out first?
Try to show your text in 'Ukrainian Latin' to an English speaker and see if he'll understand anything. I bet he won't. "
I have shown my Ukrainian latin to English speakers, and not only English speakers, but I had other Western slavs in mind when I said that. I did not say if Ukraine adopts a Latin script, it will enter the EU. I meant it would be easier for travel.
Most tourists who may come to Ukraine for whatever reason they may have, would perhaps like to know which direction they are going. Using the Latinka, it would spell out Kyjiv or Žmerynka, instead of Київ or Жмеринка. If you show that to an English speaker, which do you think he will figure out first?
maximiliano,
When was the last time you visited Ukraine? It's been like at least five years since Latin versions of all major city names appeared on the road signs along the main highways. It says 'Kyiv' alongside 'Київ' and 'Zhmerynka' alongside 'Жмеринка'. Most bar and shop owners who care about foreign clientele now have smart signs out in Latin script, many of them actually in English. At least, that's the case in Kyiv, where I am.
For foreigners who have come to Ukraine figuring out the direction depends more on the way the city names are written on their maps and how close they are to what appears on the road signs. And by the way, all English speakers that I have known would figure 'Kiev' much sooner than 'Kyiv'.
When was the last time you visited Ukraine? It's been like at least five years since Latin versions of all major city names appeared on the road signs along the main highways. It says 'Kyiv' alongside 'Київ' and 'Zhmerynka' alongside 'Жмеринка'. Most bar and shop owners who care about foreign clientele now have smart signs out in Latin script, many of them actually in English. At least, that's the case in Kyiv, where I am.
For foreigners who have come to Ukraine figuring out the direction depends more on the way the city names are written on their maps and how close they are to what appears on the road signs. And by the way, all English speakers that I have known would figure 'Kiev' much sooner than 'Kyiv'.
>> Using the Latinka, it would spell out Kyjiv or Žmerynka, instead of Київ or Жмеринка. If you show that to an English speaker, which do you think he will figure out first? <<
it's his problem, when i go in England I dont expect to see cyrillic on the streets, so foreigners should learn a bit about the country they go to and don't be so ignorant and inhabitans of "cyrillic" countries should be proud and stay with their own culture and heritage!
it's his problem, when i go in England I dont expect to see cyrillic on the streets, so foreigners should learn a bit about the country they go to and don't be so ignorant and inhabitans of "cyrillic" countries should be proud and stay with their own culture and heritage!
It should be kept in Cyrillic (with maybe a Latin subtitle underneath). If I went to China, I wouldn't expect signs to be written in English or Latin script (even though it would be nice).
Cyrillic and Latin have both played a role in Ukrainian History. The Latinka is not a new 21st century idea. The Latinka was used by Cossacks and other Ukrainian people and Ukrainian heroes. I just think that because we were forced to use the Cyrillic during the Soviet era (because there was a proposal for a switch to Latinka in the Ukrainian SSR, but since the Ukrainian SSR Government preferred russification, it was ignored), we shouldn't have to just use Cyrillic, but we could use both whenever we would need to.
The Latinka was and still should be part of Ukraine's culture and heritage. That's why it should be reintroduced, and used along with the Cyrillic.
I have gone to Ukraine, and I have seen only SOME of the Ukrainian city names "transliterated."
There are so many different spelling of those city names, because there is no precise why of writing anything. The transliteration Ukraine has now is only official for English, not for French, German, and Polish etc.
If Ukrainian had an OFFICIAL LATIN script, ALL NAMES would have to be written in with Latin as well (including ALL city names). We wouldn't need to transliterate anything. All names would already be in Latin and Cyrillic. There wouldn't be any confusion with papers.
A friend of mine came from Ukraine to the United States. His name is Сергей in Russian (Sergey) , but since the people doing the documents did not have his name in Latin, because Ukraine doesn’t have an official Latin script, they wrote his name Sirhay, pronounced Sir - Hi. If his name was spelt with a Latin script that was officially recognized in Ukrainian, there would not be a mistake. Now when they take his name, Sirhay, and rewrite it in Russian or Ukrainian again, it would be Серхай.
That is way we need an official Latin script for all languages, not just English.
An official Latinka could only be the answer, in my opinion.
The Latinka was and still should be part of Ukraine's culture and heritage. That's why it should be reintroduced, and used along with the Cyrillic.
I have gone to Ukraine, and I have seen only SOME of the Ukrainian city names "transliterated."
There are so many different spelling of those city names, because there is no precise why of writing anything. The transliteration Ukraine has now is only official for English, not for French, German, and Polish etc.
If Ukrainian had an OFFICIAL LATIN script, ALL NAMES would have to be written in with Latin as well (including ALL city names). We wouldn't need to transliterate anything. All names would already be in Latin and Cyrillic. There wouldn't be any confusion with papers.
A friend of mine came from Ukraine to the United States. His name is Сергей in Russian (Sergey) , but since the people doing the documents did not have his name in Latin, because Ukraine doesn’t have an official Latin script, they wrote his name Sirhay, pronounced Sir - Hi. If his name was spelt with a Latin script that was officially recognized in Ukrainian, there would not be a mistake. Now when they take his name, Sirhay, and rewrite it in Russian or Ukrainian again, it would be Серхай.
That is way we need an official Latin script for all languages, not just English.
An official Latinka could only be the answer, in my opinion.
Maximiliano,
Screw your Latin. Your head is so full of political crap it's unbelievable. Latin was never used by the Cossacks or 'Ukrainian heroes'. Ever since the Christianisation of Kievan Rus, Cyrillic has been the only script used by the people in this land, except for some Polonised nobles, who spoke and wrote Polish, not Ukrainian.
You may or may not like the Cyrillic script (apparently because it's used by Russians, and not by your favourite Poles or Czechs) but it's the best fitting script to the Ukrainian language known, and by the way, Cyrillic is also used by Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians, who are not less Slavs than Poles.
The example of your friend is a load of bullcrap. Russian 'Сергей' (Ukrainian 'Сергій') would have never been transliterated into English as ridiculous 'Sirhay', but as 'Serhiy', which in fact is as close as you can get in English to the original 'Сергій'.
...
I'm so bloody tired of hearing voices from across the ocean from the bleeding ‘Diaspora’ who like to tell us how to live. Come live with the rest of us here if you want to have any significance to this society. Otherwise, just keep quiet. You are in America, and that's where you should stay.
Screw your Latin. Your head is so full of political crap it's unbelievable. Latin was never used by the Cossacks or 'Ukrainian heroes'. Ever since the Christianisation of Kievan Rus, Cyrillic has been the only script used by the people in this land, except for some Polonised nobles, who spoke and wrote Polish, not Ukrainian.
You may or may not like the Cyrillic script (apparently because it's used by Russians, and not by your favourite Poles or Czechs) but it's the best fitting script to the Ukrainian language known, and by the way, Cyrillic is also used by Serbs, Macedonians and Bulgarians, who are not less Slavs than Poles.
The example of your friend is a load of bullcrap. Russian 'Сергей' (Ukrainian 'Сергій') would have never been transliterated into English as ridiculous 'Sirhay', but as 'Serhiy', which in fact is as close as you can get in English to the original 'Сергій'.
...
I'm so bloody tired of hearing voices from across the ocean from the bleeding ‘Diaspora’ who like to tell us how to live. Come live with the rest of us here if you want to have any significance to this society. Otherwise, just keep quiet. You are in America, and that's where you should stay.
If I am correct, Mongols switched from Cyrillic to their traditional script when the Communist system collapsed.
Moldavian is in fact the same language as Romanian; Moldavians got a language of their own written in Cyrillic when Moldova became a Soviet Republic after WW II. Because Romanian had switched from Cyrillic to Latin alphabet in the 19th century, they could claim in Soviet Union that Cyrillic was the original alphabet.
One reason why Uzbeks, Azers and Tatars prefer Latin alphabet is "Pan-Turkism" - almost all Turkic languages are so close that they are more or less intelligible.
Moldavian is in fact the same language as Romanian; Moldavians got a language of their own written in Cyrillic when Moldova became a Soviet Republic after WW II. Because Romanian had switched from Cyrillic to Latin alphabet in the 19th century, they could claim in Soviet Union that Cyrillic was the original alphabet.
One reason why Uzbeks, Azers and Tatars prefer Latin alphabet is "Pan-Turkism" - almost all Turkic languages are so close that they are more or less intelligible.
I don't even know why this stuff should be raised: Cyrillic works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it (and it works perfectly). It was invented by SS Kiril and Metodija (Sts Cyril and Methodius), two Slavs, and it was designed to be used by those who speak a Slavic tongue, or certainly spread through their travels to other Slavs. I personally feel very proud to be able to use and read the script. Why can't others of a Slavic background be proud of it too?