The English word for "Germany"

Latin-Anglo-American   Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:48 pm GMT
I find the Latin languages' names for Germany to be more appropriate, because there lots of German peoples, which include, the Dutch, the Flemish, the Danes, the English, etc. Confusion arises from only calling the land of the Alemmani "German". I like French "Allemagne", and Spanish "Alemania" much better.
JGreco   Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:00 pm GMT
Here you go;

Alemania (Spanish)
Allemagne (French)
Deutschland (German)
Germania (Italian & Latin)
Fredrik from Norway   Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:15 pm GMT
True, but also Allemagne and Alemania are a bit misleading, as they are derived from the name of the most south-western German tribe, the Alemanns or Swabians. The Alemannic dialect covers both the federal state of Baden-Württemberg, Switzerland and French Alsace, so naturally this was the part of the German people that the French and Spaniards had most contact with. Similarly the Finns call Germany Saksa, as the north German Saxons were the ones they mostly dealt with.

The Old English name for Germany was Þēodiscland, similar to modern German Deutschland. The modern version would of course be Dutchland, but alas that is impossible today.

Although they call the country Germania, Italians at least use the correct adjective and language name: tedesco, derived from deutsch.

Apart from German itself, only Dutch, Frisian, Afrikaans and the Nordic languages use the correct name:
Dutch and Afrikaans: Duitsland
Frisian: Dútslân
Norwegian, Danish and Swedish: Tyskland
Faroese: Týskland
Icelandic: Þýskaland

And Sami does too: Duiska
Benjamin   Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:20 pm GMT
Also...

Nimcy (Polish)
Fredrik from Norway   Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:39 pm GMT
All Slavic languages use some form of "nemec" etc., meaning dumb, mute, for German, the Germans and Germany. Quite logical actually, as all Slavs could communicate with each other on a basic level in former times, while the foreigners (=Germans) were unable to say anything understandable.
Sander   Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:07 pm GMT
>> I find the Latin languages' names for Germany to be more appropriate, because there lots of German peoples, which include, the Dutch, the Flemish, the Danes, the English, etc. Confusion arises from only calling the land of the Alemmani "German". I like French "Allemagne", and Spanish "Alemania" much better.<<

No, I doubt if they are more appropriate ... afterall the "Alemanni" from which most Romance language get their name for Germany, were just one tribe.

Apart from that, there is only one GERMAN tribe, but there are many GermanIC tribes.

>> The modern version would of course be Dutchland, but alas that is impossible today. <<

I doubt that, it could also mean "Dietsland" (the Netherlands + Flanders)
Fredrik from Norway   Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:34 pm GMT
Sander:
"Apart from that, there is only one GERMAN tribe, but there are many GermanIC tribes."
Not necessarily. In the Carolingian era there were five German Stammesherzogtümer / tribal duchies:
Saxony
Franconia
Bavaria
Swabia
Lotharingia
Of course these "tribes" were not independent peoples like the Germanic tribes, but they had some political autonomy, separate laws (e.g. Sachsenspiegel and Schwabenspiegel) and of course there were dialect boundaries, which still are there.

"I doubt that, it could also mean "Dietsland" (the Netherlands + Flanders)"
Of course this is what it would mean in contemporary usage. But if the adjective "Dutch" had not been limited to mean the language or the people of the Low Countries, but instead had retained the same meaning as German deutsch, then Germany could have been Dutchland.
Latin-Anglo-American   Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:37 pm GMT
There were multiple GERMAN tribes. You're confusing the modern word for German, meaning only people of Germany. The Franks were Germans, the Angles and Saxons were Germans, the Ostro and Visigoths were Germans, and so on.
fab   Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:26 am GMT
It is true that in french it is less confusing, for exemple we can say :

"Les Francs étaient des Germains." (the franks were germans)

But It doesn't mean

"Les Francs étaient des Allemands" (the Franks were Germans)
Fredrik from Norway   Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:34 am GMT
Latin-Anglo-American and fab:
I think you both mean "Germanic"!
Latin-Anglo-American   Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:56 am GMT
<<It is true that in french it is less confusing, for exemple we can say :

"Les Francs étaient des Germains." (the franks were germans)

But It doesn't mean

"Les Francs étaient des Allemands" (the Franks were Germans) >>

Good God! For once I find myself in agreement with Fab. It must have taken a lot out of him to manage to side with my opinion for once.

One of the main reasons we use the term "Germanic", is to avoid confusion with other German peoples like the Dutch.
Fredrik from Norway   Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:02 am GMT
Latin-Anglo-American wrote:
"One of the main reasons we use the term "Germanic", is to avoid confusion with other German peoples like the Dutch."

The Dutch are German? I think you mean Germanic!
Fredrik from Norway   Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:24 am GMT
Not very different, but Sweden is called Sverige in Swedish. No idea where they got the d from, as
Sverige = Svear-rige = Realm of the Svear
Fredrik from Norway   Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:27 am GMT
And stop saying Finnland and Greece. Suomi and Hellas sound much better.
Marius   Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:47 am GMT
"Here you go;

Alemania (Spanish)
Allemagne (French)
Deutschland (German)
Germania (Italian & Latin) "

Germania - is also in Romanian.
German people (eng) - is German and also Neamt (neamtz) a slavic loanword.
German language- is Germana in Romanian.

"Germania was the Latin name for a geographical area that stretched from the west bank of the Rhine to a vaguely-defined eastern frontier with the forest and steppe regions of modern Russia and Ukraine (Sarmatia).

Latin Germani is first used by Julius Caesar, and is thought to be a loan from the Celtic name for the Germanic tribes: the word is an exonym. There is also a Latin adjective germanus (from germen, "seed" or "offshoot"), which has the sense of "related" or "kindred" and whence derives the Portuguese irmão and the Spanish hermano, "brother". If the proper name Germani derives from this word, it may refer to the Roman experience of the Germanic tribes as allies of the Celts. The name may also derive from one of the principal proto-tribes of Central Europe, the Hermunduri.

Caesar described the cultural differences between the Germans, the Romans and the Gauls. He said that the Gauls, although warlike, could be civilized, but the Germanic tribesmen were far more savage, and were a threat to Roman Gaul, and so had to be conquered. His accounts of barbaric northern tribes could be described as an expression of the superiority of Rome.

GERMANIC

The concept of "Germanic" as a distinct ethnic identity was hinted at by the early Greek geographer Strabo [1], who distinguished a barbarian group in northern Europe similar to, but not part of, the Celts. Posidonius, to our knowledge, is the first to have used the name, around 80 BC, in his lost 30th book. Our knowledge of this is based on the 4th book of Athenaeus, who in ca. AD 190 quotes Posidonius as saying that "The Germani at noon serve roast meat with milk, and drink their wine undiluted"