Why do people look down on Spanish?
Did I deny bigotry? Did I not confirm that there is bigotry in America? Reread your post and mine. To imply that bigotry exists only in America, while apparently everyone else in Europe is "sophisticated" and "tolerant" is indeed a stereotype. You've also apparently never spent any significant amount of time in Europe if you believe this, or are blind to the bigotry present there.
If you want to say your average American is such and such, the burden of proof is upon you. I challenged this because I felt it was an unfair demonization of Americans (or are most of them not average anymore?). I asked you to explain your views and you come back with this.
Here is the definition of a stereotype: (Sociology). a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group.
So far what I've seen is Americans stereotyping Americans. You all obviously believe in the concept of the "individual", since you all claim to be one yourselves. I don't see why you cannot believe the rest of Americans are individuals too and no majority is going to fit your view of "how things should be".
Explain to me why, out of every American I know of on this board, not one of them is average? What is average? 1 in 10? 1 in 25? 1 in 500? Maybe all the "average" people congregate on the Stormfront board, is that what you are trying to tell me? The rest of us (of which there are a great many) - un-average. We are a nation of un-average people.
<< To imply that bigotry exists only in America, while apparently everyone else in Europe is "sophisticated" and "tolerant" is indeed a stereotype. You've also apparently never spent any significant amount of time in Europe if you believe this, or are blind to the bigotry present there. >>
So true. I used to believe in the 'Americans are bigots whilst Europeans are tolerant' stereotype as well, but the reality is that there is just as much (if not more) bigotry here in Europe. Just the other day, I was talking to someone who seemed to believe that the 'native' British population are now suffering a plight similar to what the Native Americans experienced in North America in the 19th century due to the 'huge numbers' of Africans, West Indians, South Asians and Eastern Europeans who now come here. Thoroughly ridiculous, I know, but there really are people here who think like that.
TOP 15 RANKING IN VARIOUS NATIONS HUMAN DEVELOPMENT INDEXES, 2002.
THE LEAST POVERTY
1. SWEDEN
2. NORWAY
3. NETHERLANDS
4. FINLAND
5. DENMARK
6. GERMANY
7. LUXEMBOURG
8. FRANCE
9. SPAIN
10. JAPAN
11. ITALY
12. CANADA
13. BELGIUM
14. AUSTRALIA
15. UNITED KINGDOM
I got shocked when i saw this because i don't see United States anywhere
« I got shocked when i saw this because i don't see United States anywhere »
That's because the United States has a larger gap between the richer and the poorer people than those 15 countries do. But I'm not quite sure what that has to do with this thread.
By the way, my message above was to in response to apam's message. I don't think I made that clear, but pretend what Benjamin rightly quoted in the post above mine, is in mine too.
And also because of how the poverty rates are measured from country to country. Poverty is defined differently in the United States vs. Europe, so that on paper, it might appear that we have more people per capita living under the poverty line, as our "line" or "bar" is set higher than most European countries. In addition, as Benjamin pointed out, America is still a land of abundance and opportunity, only that the wealth is not distributed as equally between social groups as it is in the social welfare states of Europe. But we also have twice the rate of economic growth, and half the unemployment that countries like Germany have to deal with.
There is bigots both in Europe and in the U.S. People are people, and they will continue to fear or hate what feels foreign to them. They will continue to form groups and divide themselves. That's what humans do. Unfortunately, we're imperfect. I think the "bigot Americans and tolerant Europeans" stereotype arose from the fact that Europeans are far more liberal and progressive than Americans are as a whole, at least in their political and some moral views. Also, the U.S. has been traditionally more ethnically diverse than Europe, so people were subjected to racial divisions, and deep rooted ones, long before Europeans were forced to. Now Europeans are starting to see how many White Americans feel. They feel threatened by the "mass immigration of the dark hordes". A lot of Europeans that I've talked to complain about the muslim immigrants in their countries. They say they refuse to conform to the traditional society's culture and norms, and that they are rude, etc. All of the same complaints that White Americans make about immigrants here.
<<You got have some stereotyping Tiffany. I mean, at least in stand up comedy.>>
Sorry, did not see this till now.
No one is denying there are stereotypes here, no one is denying bigotry. As a visible minority, which I doubt either you or apam are, I've seen it and felt it firsthand. Come talk to me about your eyes watering when you have experienced some of the hatred I have.
But even then I do not feel I can stereotype Americans. Do unto other as you would have them do unto you - I don't like to be stereotyped, therefore I refuse to stereotype others. Sure I get angry, but I try to be rational. Just because a bunch of kids picked on me, does not make all the kids in America racist - and that's the truth.
As I said before, there are racists - I've met them. But not everyone is racist and I have to say, I've met more of my "average" people (open-minded, some prejudices but willing to learn), than apam's overtly racist, cultural-difference-fearing "average" people.
According to apam's view, as a minority, I guess I should be living in fear of the outside world (made up on average people) everyday. I've heard much worse prejudice about people like me, than about Italians. And my Italian husband - right, he sees lots of racism - his name ends in a vowel too. I mean, if apam's crying, what should I be doing, getting ready to commit suicide? But I'm not. I wonder why? Could it be because this view of "reality" is not entirely accurate?
<<There is bigots both in Europe and in the U.S. People are people, and they will continue to fear or hate what feels foreign to them. They will continue to form groups and divide themselves. That's what humans do. Unfortunately, we're imperfect. I think the "bigot Americans and tolerant Europeans" stereotype arose from the fact that Europeans are far more liberal and progressive than Americans are as a whole, at least in their political and some moral views. Also, the U.S. has been traditionally more ethnically diverse than Europe, so people were subjected to racial divisions, and deep rooted ones, long before Europeans were forced to. Now Europeans are starting to see how many White Americans feel. They feel threatened by the "mass immigration of the dark hordes". A lot of Europeans that I've talked to complain about the muslim immigrants in their countries. They say they refuse to conform to the traditional society's culture and norms, and that they are rude, etc. All of the same complaints that White Americans make about immigrants here.>>
Now this I would be more inclined to agree with. Not so sure about Europeans being more "liberal" and "progressive" (Try being homosexual in Italy), but I have read about some states in America that seem to be as backwards as they come (Kansas and creationism) and some that are quite progressive (Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage).
I am not claiming, and I don't think Apam is either, that the majority of Americans are racists and pick on poor little minorities with a vowel at the end of their name. No, that's not what I'm saying. But, what I am saying, is that sometimes stereotypes can be useful, such as in comedy. I have friends from just about all races except for middle eastern, and we crack jokes about each other all of the time. We call each other racial names and everything, but not in a malicious way. It's purely teasing between friends to get a laugh out of people. Maybe ridicule brought you to tears, but as Apam and I are males, we don't usually cry about those things. Get angry perhaps, become violent and retaliate, but not cry. Are you saying that Apam and I are not "visible minorites", and thus are not really minorities or ever discriminated against? What is a "visible minority" anyway?
And by the way, the same goes for minorities oppressing and displaying racism toward the majority white population. How many white people drive through a certain part of town at night? They're wise not to, and for a reason. Apam and I are Europeans by descent, but as his parents are from Italy, he was obviously raised in a slightly different "sub-culture", and besides that, many Anglos don't consider Italians or some other southern Europeans to be fully "white". That classification is a little blury. Besides that, we have his last name, which sounds "ethnic" to most ears. The same applies to me. I am of a different sub-culture and I have an ethnic last name. For me, being a white Hispanic has many disadvantages and also advantages. In business, I most likely won't be stereotyped or people won't assume that my performance would suffer (the way they see things), because they associate me with them, based on the way I look on the outside. I reap some benefits from looking like a white dude, while my Spanish last name qualifies me for affirmative action. On the other hand, I'm not accepted as Hispanic by some racially minded street punks who used to frequently try to jump me in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood in which I lived. So, I've been on the recieving ends of both sides of the spectrum. I know how it feels from both perspectives.
I can't undertsnda what's the connection your name ends in a vowle so people hate you ???? it's a weird reason, no ?
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<< A lot of Europeans that I've talked to complain about the muslim immigrants in their countries. >>
yes, I've heared that many people complain about especially muslim immigrants.
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<< Now this I would be more inclined to agree with. Not so sure about Europeans being more "liberal" and "progressive" (Try being homosexual in Italy), but I have read about some states in America that seem to be as backwards as they come (Kansas and creationism) and some that are quite progressive (Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage). >>
there are liberal countries in europe and not liberal ones - and individuals also. probaby for a gay person it's ok live in holland, belgium, denmark etc..where the society have a traditional liberal mentality for such things.
ignorance, prejudice, intolerance etc.. i detest it.Tiffany, you've wrote that you have expereinced hatred - why and what did happen ?
<< People are people, and they will continue to fear or hate what feels foreign to them. They will continue to form groups and divide themselves. That's what humans do. Unfortunately, we're imperfect >>
yes, we're all imperfect, but the intolerance i think also is because some people think that themself are nearly perfect so therefore btter than some other peopl and so they fear or hate them.i woud like very much ot chnage this thoughts and actions of all the poeple who are prejudiced, but it's not possible, unfortunatly.
it seems that you will not reply, so bye.
Pauline, it's not that we're not replying to you. We just happened to be offline at the time. We're not on here 24-7.
Ugh, I live in the Temecula/Murietta Valley area in southern California (otherwise known as Uppermiddleclassprotestantconservativewhiteville), and I HATE it.
A bunch of people at my school definitely seem to have a negative image of Latin Americans. Most of my friends are Latinos, and a frequent conversation topic is how White people often look down on them. We've come to the conclusion that a common stereotype of them is "Oh-so-low-class-I'd-hate-to-have-that-job-Did-you-hear-they-had-another-baby-We-should-build-an-electric-fence-on-the-border-to-keep-out-the-Mexicans-those-dirty-Mexicans".
Also, there is definitely a general dislike of the Spanish language among these racists.
LAA, I don't think you could have said it any better than the original message you posted.
<<Tiffany, you've wrote that you have expereinced hatred - why and what did happen ?>>
They felt threatened by me, I guess. I don't want to go into it since it's personal, but let's suffice to say it disgusts me too. (It's not only "white" people who have shown me contempt either)