Romanian Language - Eastern Romance languages

Guest   Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:21 am GMT
for zek
yes moldovan is mutually intelligible to romanian, in fact it's about 99.7% the same language, it's hard even to call it a dialect
Guest   Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:07 pm GMT
A Romanian who has never studied Spanish say that he/she understands this language, but the real truth is that they have NO IDEA of what they are talking about. Spanish requieres work for Romanians. I haven't come acrossed too many Romanians, who say that they understand Spanish, that are capable to speak Spanish correctly and even to understand it, as they imply. Romanians are BOASTING. They write in a CV that they know (and this is the word they that use most all of the time) at least two languages but, please foreigners, do NOT BELIEVE them, just TEST THEM and then you'll get to realize that I'm right.

I'm ashamed ofthe people of my country that are not capable of saying one phrase in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese (generally they study English, French, German) but they are implying without shame that they know and understand these languages quite well.

Akuna Matata
Johan   Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:58 pm GMT
To Akuna Matata,

You statement is full of hate across Romanians and I don't understand why. You cannot mystify the reality, the obvious reality. Yes, Romanians understand literary Italian without to learn. What would be so difficult for a Romanian to get the sense of this Italian phrase:

" Hai comprato un nueva casa!" when in Romanian, this Phrase sounds : " Am cumparat o noua casa!" (I bought a new house!). You make me believe that you:
- are totally uneducated; (because you took the risk to say such stupid things);
- are full of hate across other nations (which is a sign of education lack as well).

I only feel sory for you!
Guest   Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:41 pm GMT
"Ho comprato una nueva casa"
I want to study Italian, in fact I have just began a an Italian course by myself and I was wondering if this phrase should be like the one I have written.
Hutch   Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:00 am GMT
"Ho comprato una casa nuova" I bought a new house.
Irina   Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:56 am GMT
I'm a Romanian and I think Akuna Matata is kind of right. It happened to me too to come across Romanians, who didn't study any language, to say that he actually knows one, that being Italian. Italian has a lot of words that assemble to Romanian, but at the same time it also has a lot that one cannot understand if it's not used to the language, if it doesn't have a connection with it. More than this, in order to speak this language, it is required for a Romanian to study the grammar to speak correctly.
Do you think that a Romanian will understand exactly what an Italian wants to say, I mean can they actually understand each other without problems. Many Italian words are like those in Spanish, and if you do not know this language to make an assosiacion with Italian to get to the real concept....Macedonians and Bulgarians understand each other, as well as with Serbs. Galician language is a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish but, yet, a language. Romanian is different from the Galician understood by the Portuguese or the Macedonian itelligible to Bulgarians and Serbs. Romanian has a grammar mixed with Slavic and Latin constructions,the lexic is also full of Slavic words which make the studying of Latin languages for the Romanians a bit solicitant (I don't want to say difficult, because it depends on the person's talent, even though a talented person might find some of the constructions difficult when studying French, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish). Due to the differencies that are abundent between Romanian and other Latin languages, I also consider that the Romanian person understands Italian, which is the closest Latin language to Romanian, at a low scale, some dispersed words, and somtimes entire short phrases, like the one " Ho comprato una cosa nuova", but it doesn't mean that they would understand all the conversation, or at least all the ideas. This a phenomenon that happens with the Portuguese and Galician, Macedonian and Bulgarian, Macedonian and Serbian.

If you allow me, analyse these Romanian and Italian words:

a alege - sceliere
a alerga - correre (like the Spanish correr)
apus - tramonto
a arunca - buttare
branza - formaggio (as in French, fromage)
buza - labbro (as in Spanish, labio)
a cantari - pesare (Spanish, pesar)
functionar - impiegato
greseala - sbaglio
guler - collo (Spanish, cuello)
lant - catena (Spanish, cadena)
limpede - chiaro
lipsa - mancanza

These are some of the basic words that a person should know in order to assert that can speak a language. I DO not say that one can come and make a list with words that assemble between the two languages, but, as you noticed there are a lot of words that are like Spanish and also words that do not assemble with either of them.

Thank you for reading! I'm waiting for your answers!
Hutch   Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:58 pm GMT
"a cantari'' in Romanin, means "pesare" in Italian? Pesare means "to weigh''. I don't get the connection. Unless ''cantari'' is cognate to ''quantity'', or the English word ''count'', which has a loose connotation to weighing something of quantity. "Cantare'' means ''to sing'' in Italian. ''Cantar'' is Spanish (to sing).
Guest   Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:45 pm GMT
The idea was that there are a lot of words that do not assemble between Italian and Romanian. These words above were listed in order to show that they are not alike with Romanian. "A cantari" means "to weigh", as you notice, Hutch, there is a similitude with the Spanish word. "Cantare" in Romanian is "a canta". This word is a similar one.
I'm sorry if I wasn't too explicite. I'm always in a hurry.
Thanks for reading and expressing your point of view.

Next time I would use the diacritics too when writing the Romanian words. We have a cântări, a cânta... but I should also explain you how they are pronunced and I really have to go now.

Johan   Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:04 pm GMT

I think that you don't know Romanian good enough; I have doubts that you are Romanian but anyway, it is your right to say whatever you want...

On the other hand, I don't think that you understand how exactly the discussion was... I said, that the modern Italian (and not a dialect), can be understood by MYSELF and that I never studied Italian. I spoke for myself, I specified that... you spoke in the name of all Romanians....pretty courageous.

Then , you brought up here examples of non similar words between Romanian and Italian... who contested their existence? If there where a perfect similarity between these two languages we wouldn't have today the occasion to speak about Italian and Romanian, as about two different languages, don't you find it?

I gave you before an entire sentence as exemple where the similarities between the two languages are obvious. You came up with some words which are not having (in your view) closed roots... Some of the words you used are of Thracian origin which is already known about their existence in Romanian...

I'm sorry for you but to makeh such comments unveils a deep superficiality in understanding languages in general and languages formation and evolution in special. You don't even realize that exactley some words in your example are very similar between these two languages. I'll give you just a few examples which proves for the safe of your image that you are not Romanian...because any literate Romanian wouldn't make such mistakes:

1. - (Romanian) GRESALA = known also as SBARCEALA = (Italian) SBAGLIO; Gresala has numerous synonyms in Romanian which proves the richness of the language. Here are some of them: SBARCEALA, VINA; ABATERE; PACAT; INCORECT; INVOLUNTAR;

2. - GULER is coming from Latin (collāre), probably via Hungarian - from Galler. But Galler is an Hungarian loan word from LATIN ...if you really want to know that!

3. - FUNCTIONAR - French loan but that's only an option because we do have the alternative of IMPIEGAT, which generally refers to an inferior grade employee and specially to the employees in railway environment. Romanian IMPIEGAT could make very easy understandable the menaning of the Italian IMPIEGATO, don't you think?

4. - LIMPEDE comes from the Latin LIMPIDUS. In the same time, to express the Italian CHIARO, Romanian has also the word CLAR, from the Latin CLARUS. CLAR and LIMPEDE are synonymous in Romanian. In other words, hearing an Italian saying chiaro, I realize that he refers to CLAR = LIMPEDE!

5. Lant is a loan word from Bulgarian LANEC. Romanian preserved the word CATENA (similar to Italian CATENA), only for connection of atoms...therefore, hearing Italian Catena, it is not difficult to understand what he is reffering to, agreed?

6. LIPSA has also MANCO as synonym but you need to have a specific knowledge to find out about its existence in Romanian. It refers to an estimated loss of goods during transportation, or to a money missing, noticed during a deal closing...The word is an Italian loan, more likely! But LIPSA in Romanian could be expressed also with synonyms like ABSENTA which comes from the Latin ABSENTIA or A ABSENTA from Latin ABSENTARE...or MINUS from Latin MINUS...

7. A ARUNCA comes from the Latin ERUNCARE. Obviously, Italian BUTTARE has another root; maybe German. ARUNCA in different context could be replaced by BRANCA ( A face BRANCA cuiva - to push somebody down) and comes from the Latin BRANCA.

8. A ALERGA (ALERGARE) comes from the Latin ALLARGARE. It has a synonym A FUGI from the popular Latin:FUGIRE (Classic FUGERE) which probably gave the Italian CORRERE...I assume, I don't know for sure...

9. APUS comes from the Latin APPONERE which means a losing/decrease of (Sun, Life etc) position. Italian TRAMONTO comes probably from the German INTRAMONTAN which is also very well known in Romanian as well and means INSIDE MOUNTAINS.

See, I gave you these explanations by using just your own "PROVING WORDS" to make you realize why, for somebody literate as I am, understanding Italian is never a problem if Italian means the literary language spoken in Italy. Romanian is very reach in synonyms / alternatives and is offering me the possibility to understand Italian without to learn it.

As regarding the other words you mentioned above, their are of Thracian Origin:

Buza, Branza, Viezure, Iepure etc... In conclusion, you didn't bring anything new because only people who wants to demolish their own image would take the risks to show their limits in languages formation and evolution.

Be good!
Hutch   Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:57 pm GMT
''Tramonto'' probably means ''across the mountains'', from Latin, ''trans'', transit, trans, to move. Transmonte. ''Fugire'', to escape, Énglish ''fugitive''. Fugire doesn't mean ''corriere'', which is Italian ''to run''. ''Catena'', in Italian means ''chain''. In Spanish, it's ''cadena''. ''Buttare'' is, I believe, in Italian, ''to hit'' ór, ''to strike''.
Johan   Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:46 am GMT

In Romanian " a fugi" = " a alerga" = Correre in Italian = to run...
and I said that "correre" PROBABLY evolved from FUGERE... I only assumed that...

Enlgish FUGITIVE is an adverb... it is showing a describes sombody who is ON Romanian this is a FUGITIV ...In Italian should be something like IL FUGITIVO and in Spanisch , probably EL FUGITIVO!

If BUTTARE means, to hit, to strike , then in Romanian exists A BATE which means to beat, to strike!

CATENA ,yes is Chain, nobody said something else...

TRAMONTO yes, it means accros the mountains... I translated wront first time... In Romanian exist TRANSMONTAN for accross the mountains and INTRAMONTAN for inside/between the Mountains...Still not sure if the LATINS didn't borrow it from Germans (Goths).

Anyway, the idea was if Romanians could understand Italian without learning it and I say, YES they do, if the areedcuated and if Italian is spoken literary!
Guest   Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:42 pm GMT
Johan, I perfectly agree with you that Romanians could understand Italian wothout learning it IF THEY ARE EDUCATED AS YOU ARE, because it is obvious that you have lot of knowledge.

But not for the others!
I personally speak Spanish, I understand almost everything in Portuguese, Galician, and Italian without learning them by making connexions, if not with Romanian, then with Spanish.

But I really don't think that all the Romanians can understand everything in Italian. At least they cannot understand Spanish , AND I'm quite sure of that, through my experience with the people I know. What I can say is that they are not so interested in languages as you are which explains the fact.

Guest   Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:46 pm GMT
Ah I forgot to mention that I didn't say that these words are not having the same root, I just that they are not so much alike in oirder to understand.

And I appreciate that you talked in your name...
Because that makes a big difference!
Guest   Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:51 pm GMT
buttare is not to throw in Italian, see how the concept can be lost? Romanian has a very rich lexic, but the other languages have it too, which makes the understanding not so easy if you do not have a connexion with the language.
Guest   Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:36 pm GMT
Can anyone explain me more about Aromanian?
I've been in Macedonia and I met some Vlachs that didn't want to recognize that their speak a dialect of Romanian language. I was quite astonished because I know that my Romanian friends say that they can understand Aromanian to a high scale, but these Aromanian people said that they understand nothing of Romanian, maybe that's because many of their words are from old Romanian,and because they also borrowed many words from Macedonian, Greek, Turkish...