Which accent is really more popular in the world?

Damian in Edinburgh   Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:06 pm GMT
Thanks, Rene - it really is good to be back hame - London is fantastic but (BLEEP) expensive, but if they (my employers) offer me another stint (temporary!) down there I'd accept in one single beat of my heart. They do, after all, pay me an additional fair whack to cope with the increased cost of London life....they call it London weighting.

The Polish invasion.....I actually welcome it as most of them appear to be really nice people, very pleasant and polite, and welcomed with open arms by British employers for various reasons, among them being a keen willingness to work very hard, and over quite long hours and.....now this is a very contentious issue....for less money than most native Brits are willing to accept. The minimum wage in the UKwhich all employers are obliged to pay is £5.52 (US$11.32) per hour for age 22 upwards, and £4.60 (US$9.44) per hour for ages under 22. Some employers - emphasis on the word "some" - try and pay below this which is strictly illegal and lay themselves open to prosecution if found out, but some get away with it and some of the Polish people are, unfortunately, unaware of the regulations - at least until they get wise to it, and good for them.

Polish people now fill every kind of occupation in Britain, not only on construction sites. Here in Edinburgh some drive the city buses - and coping with our local accent as well as all sorts of other accents from tourists, etc, plus the fact that they may not be used to keeping to the left on the roads and streets, it can't be easy for them, initially anyway.

A lot of them are very good looking, and there is one regularly working on a checkout at our local Waitrose supermarket and I try and head for his till whenever possible as he's good for a bit of a laugh, as well as being mega fast and efficient. The funny thing about some of these Poles is that they are now beginning to adopt our local Scots expressions, which sound really funny in a Polish accent. They have now opened up their own Polish stores here in Edinburgh (as in London and elsewhere) selling Polish foods and goodies and stuff, but that doesn't stop them invading the fast food joints.

Yes, Craig Ferguson comes from Glasgow - Cumbernauld to be precise, which is very close to Glasgow. I can understand him adopting American speech patterns to a certain degree, I suppose it's inevitable after being there for so long, but whether he did it by design or just as a natural matter of course without intent when he is surrounded by American accents, could be debatable. It's like the Poles who now use Scottish expressions I suppose. But there's no doubt that he would lapse into his native Scots when he comes into contact with a fellow Scot, like he did when chatting with Gerard Butler.

I know that many Americans who have been resident in the UK for a certain period of time start using British expressions left right and centre....the list of these is practically endless. I guess the same is true for Brits living in America, although their expat site seems to be full of threads in which they pledge never to lose their own kind of British accent no matter how long they live over there. That may be easier said than done.

As a Scot working down in London for a short(ish) period for the second time in 15 months or so, one thing is certain - I would never, ever adopt a London (or any other English ) accent even if I had to live the rest of my life down there! No way Jose.
Guest   Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:23 am GMT
Craig Ferguson & Gerard Butler:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ha06jnogvUs
Uriel   Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:05 pm GMT
Dang! Eleven bucks an hour is minimum wage? Ours is like half that....although I hear they raised it recently.

I would certainly not be able to comment on the authenticity of other people's accents, nor did I pay much attention to the ethnic makeup of my waiters and waitresses in London, although given that we were usually after ethnic fare rather than meat boiled into submission and cruelly deprived of basic seasonings (;P), we did seem to run into a fair number of Italians and other Mediterranean types (excellent shish kebab to had in London, by the way).

As for Ferguson, et al acquiring a certain amount of Yankee-ocity to their speech, well, it works both ways; I went to school with an American girl who had acquired a thick Scottish accent from living in Scotland. It took a year or so to wear off. I also used to work with a number of people from various Caribbean islands when I was in Georga, and on the phone they ranged from sounding Completely American to Almost British (to my ears, anyway), but in the break room, once they got to talking to eachother, the lilts came out in force. Too funny!
Meade   Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:00 am GMT
Southern accents sounds redneck? Thats really so unfair to say considering there are so many different accents in the South which really vary according to social class and location. The Southern accents sound Aristocratic in cities like Richmond, Charleston , and Savannah.Thats news to me. Most Southern accents are very pleaseant to my ears. Its the harsh nasal northern accents that bother me.

Virginia Tidewater, BTW is a dialect of Southern accent.
Jasper   Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:37 pm GMT
Meade, I assume your comments are aimed at me. I see your point of view, and empathize.

I'm an oddity here on Antimoon; born and raised in Tennessee, I have lived in the West for 27 years--long enough to have developed Western ears, as it were.

Perception of speech is a nebulous thing. I don't know why some dialects sound terrible, while others sound pleasant. I remember very clearly how awful Northern (and Western) speakers sounded to me.Because of the vowel raising and dipthongization of vowels, it sounded nasal and cloying. Midwesterners (with all due respect) had the worst variety. It was almost unbearable to listen to, and still is, in certain situations. Hillary Clinton (politics notwithstanding) has an accent at which most Southerners would cringe. (Her accent immediately identifies her as a Yankee; I bet she'll get very few votes in the South). Westerners don't raise vowels much (and don't sound nasal), but their dialect is no less cloying.

On the other hand, Meade, Inland Southern speech is equally unpleasant to listen to, particularly the hillbilly variety. Mangled vowels, and the fact that "r"s are swallowed, make it sound awfully "country". In the case of hillbilly Southern ("sprangs", instead of "springs), it's quite unbearable.

On the other hand, because the Savannah, etc, and Virginia dialects keep vowel-mangling to a minimum, and drop the "r"s altogether, they sound very pleasant to me--particularly on a woman (they're less beautiful on a man--I don't know why).

But these dialects are disappearing. Nowadays, you have the odd situation of every American speaking a dialect that's unbearably unpleasant to someone. Everybody hates everybody else's accent. What can you do?

There are those of us on Antimoon are searching for a dialect that's pleasant to everyone. My own favorite is the Mid-Atlantic dialect, which can be heard on almost any movie from the 1930s. Not quite English, but not quite American, it was quite beautiful--a goal to which we all could have all have aspired as perfect American speech. But it's no longer being taught. You could hear it spoken in Boston if you were in certain social circles, but it's pretty much a thing of the past. The only public speaker of it still alive, to my knowledge, is Bill Buckley, whose Mid-Atlantic was never pure, in any case. But yet, there are those who'd perceive the dialect as "too snobby".

Perhaps a perfect American speech, acceptable to absolutely all as pleasant, is not achievable...
Rene   Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:46 pm GMT
I get what you're saying about Southern accents. I was doing a TV binge once and first watched an episode of Criminal Minds. They were in New Orleans and there was this one cop who had the most pleasant accent to listen to. Then, on comes CSI: Miami and the blonde detective from Louisiana who (to me) has the most cloying, sickeningly sweet accent I've ever heard.

My cousin has a friend from Scotland who has lived here for five years. When his family came to visit him they all kept saying that he was talking like a "Yank". It was really funny becuase he sure didn't sound American in any measure to us.
Travis   Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:24 am GMT
>>Perception of speech is a nebulous thing. I don't know why some dialects sound terrible, while others sound pleasant. I remember very clearly how awful Northern (and Western) speakers sounded to me.Because of the vowel raising and dipthongization of vowels, it sounded nasal and cloying. Midwesterners (with all due respect) had the worst variety. It was almost unbearable to listen to, and still is, in certain situations. Hillary Clinton (politics notwithstanding) has an accent at which most Southerners would cringe. (Her accent immediately identifies her as a Yankee; I bet she'll get very few votes in the South). Westerners don't raise vowels much (and don't sound nasal), but their dialect is no less cloying.<<

Hey - we aren't Yankees! They're from the Northeast, not the Midwest, for starters....

That aside, I myself tend to not perceive dialects as "better" or "worse"-sounding but just more famliar and less familiar. Note that only dialects from southern Wisconsin really sound truly familiar to me - I have run into someone from as close as Rockford, IL who sounded somewhat off and unfamiliar in his speech for whatever reason. (However, people from Chicago generally sound rather familiar to me, but Chicago really is not that far from here at all.)
Milton   Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:24 pm GMT
West US accents are the most popular, because they are the easiest to acquire. Californian accent is very nice (the mainstream one, not imported one (back east people that moved to cali) or valley girl).

Florida accent sounds to me too BackEast. Backstreet Boys are supposed to be from Florida, but their accent is so BackEast.
Jasper   Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:25 pm GMT
<<West US accents are the most popular, because they are the easiest to acquire. Californian accent is very nice (the mainstream one, not imported one (back east people that moved to cali) or valley girl). >>

There are many of those who don't agree, Milton. To many Southerners, California accents sound cloying.

To be fair, the newer versions of California speech, viz., the CVS, sound much less cloying than other varieties of General American, because of the vowel lowering. (I'm rather fond of CVS, but that's just me.)

My point in all of this is that, for the most part, no matter which variety of American you speak, there's somebody, somewhere, who'll think your accent is horrible. Perception is a subjective thing.
Jasper   Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:19 pm GMT
<<Hey - we aren't Yankees! They're from the Northeast, not the Midwest, for starters.... >>

Travis, that term "Yankees" (or "Yanks") is an interesting one, really; its meaning seems to vary across the world. The Southerners call anybody north of the Mason-Dixon line Yankees; Midwesterners, and Northeasterners, themselves, refer to Northeasterners as Yankees, while the Brits will insist to their dying day that a Yank is any American--some are quite strong in this opinion!

I don't know what Westerners refer to when that term is used, but I'd imagine it's Northeasterners; I've not heard the term used very much out here...
Jasper   Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:20 pm GMT
On a related note, I once knew a girl, born in East Texas, who'd learned "Standard American English" from the Juilliard School of Music. It was characterized by vowel-lowering, non-dipthongization of most all vowels, and stronger-than-usual articulation of consonants. It was different enough from General American that I had to ask her immediately about her diction skills.

Some sketchy information about the dialect can be read here:

http://snipurl.com/1sv66

As an American dialect, it was pleasant enough to be a goal to which all of us can aspire.

Does anybody know anything more about this? I'd be much obliged to hear from you if you do.
Travis   Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:38 pm GMT
>><<Hey - we aren't Yankees! They're from the Northeast, not the Midwest, for starters.... >>

Travis, that term "Yankees" (or "Yanks") is an interesting one, really; its meaning seems to vary across the world. The Southerners call anybody north of the Mason-Dixon line Yankees; Midwesterners, and Northeasterners, themselves, refer to Northeasterners as Yankees, while the Brits will insist to their dying day that a Yank is any American--some are quite strong in this opinion!

I don't know what Westerners refer to when that term is used, but I'd imagine it's Northeasterners; I've not heard the term used very much out here...<<

I was being rather silly there - I know exactly what you are saying here. Of course, though, when people actually refer to "Yankees" here they usually really mean the baseball team rather than anyone from any particular part of the country.
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:52 pm GMT
In Spain the term yankee is used to call all the US citizens, no matter they are from Texas or from Massachussetss (did I spelled it right?). But southern US citizens are not exactly Yankees in the historical sense but confederates, are they? It has a notable derogatory meaning, for example, people who opose to the US military bases installed in Spain usually say "Yankees go home".
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:06 pm GMT
To most British people the term Yank refers to any American, no matter whereabouts they come from in the USA. When said, it can have hostile, mocking or scathing connotations, though - for instance, when deliberately used in preference to American. Why that should be I don't really know for sure - perhaps it can be likened to the term "Limey" when used by an American to mean an Englishman - I assume it's always an English person - I cannae for the life of me imagine a Scotman being called a Limey!

I know it's not nice to say this about the word Yank, but facts are facts - unfortunately - America now being seen in the eyes of a fair number of people across the globe as the world's "bad boy" for whatever reason, maybe quite unjustifiably, and, again unfortunately, the UK is no exception, in spite of a so called "Special Relationship", which appears to be seen as more significant in the USA than in theUK.

I don't think the term Yankee is ever used here in Britland - except on the extremely rare occasions when American baseball is discussed.

On a more pleasant note, and in sharp contrast to the misuse of the term Yank in the UK, a capacity crowd of over 90,000 (presumably mostly British!) people packed Wembley Stadium, London, on Sunday to watch two Yank (sorry...American!) NFL teams play a brill game of American Football - Miami Dolphins v New York Giants. That was a first on British soil, apparently. The American NFL has tried to "invade" these British shores before - this time they succeeded and everyone agrees that it was great fun.

And they brought their cute cheerleaders with them.....
Uriel   Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:17 pm GMT
I thought that was really just a bush league for the pros, not a "real" league.

As a westerner, and a southwesterner at that, I have a hard time thinking of myself as a Yankee in the American sense, although when I lived in NY I most definitely qualified. I wonder what my mother is? Her family is very Southern, and she herself was born in Louisiana and has many ties there, but she was an army brat like me, and has no trace of a southern accent, no cultural identifiers that I can tell, and, although she's lived in Georgia for the last 17 years, I bet her coworkers consider her a displaced Yankee....