Africa´s international languages

Guest   Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:41 pm GMT
<< I will state again Syrians and Lebanese speak to each other in Arabic, as their dialect are the same. >>

Sure, but not in MSA and when they converse with Maghrebians or Egyptians they use French because to them it's more easier to use.

In Maghrebia, news broadcast and printed in French, has more viewers and readers than news broadcasted and written in Arabic.

Again, most Maghrebians prefer to write in French especially when it comes to intellectual matters and even if you got Maghrebia you would find out that this is true and you're very wrong. They would just laugh at you if you insist what you think.
i   Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:53 pm GMT
Sorry for sending it thrice because of typo error.
Re-post   Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:09 pm GMT
Youth wrote:
<<Also Algeria has removed French as an official language and is no longer part of Francophonie. >>

Due to hard relations with Marocco (Occidental Sahara war), that's the first reason of the non-adhesion of Algeria to Francophonia (Algerians don't think that La Francophonie is a french colonialist organisation, the leader is African: Abdou Diouf (Sénégal) as the last leader: Boutros Boutros Ghali (Egypt), and the organisation was created by Indochinan, Maghrebian and African men: Norodom Sihanouk, Léopold Sédar Senghor, Bourguiba, Diori...; so...)

<<Arabic and English are the only major foreign Language in Somalia now, as the north Somalia, previously called British Somaliland has a stable government and a education system.>>

French too is a foreign Language, I was suprised when I heard on the international french TV France24 , a somali diplomat of African Union speaking French!
Now, it's compulsory for all the South-African diplomats to learn French.

All non-Francophone African countries are touched by the importance of French language:
Soudan with its big francophone minority (400,000 speakers)
Ouganda too (200,000 speakers)
Cap-Verde, Sao Tome & Principe, Mozambique & Ghana, Francophonie partners.
Nigeria becoming Francophone partner (2nd official language project, french language development, Conakry French universities)
South-Africa, big historical french-huguenots minority.
Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Angola, Gambia, Botswana, Somalia & Ethiopia privilegied french schools, special status in state administrations:

Without forgot, the African french-speakers neighbour countries: Seychelles, Mauritius, Comores of French official language, Middle east: Egypt (Francophonie country), Israel (25% of the population are able to speak French, Francophonie candidacy refused by Arabic states), Lebanon (Francophone country), Syria (Historical colonial french territory), Cyprus (Francophone partner), Malte (Francophonie candidacy)

Economics: There're powerful sub-sahel African countries as Gabon, Equatorial Guinea Congo-Brazzaville with a high GPD level.
The Franc CFA is a currency of 15 African countries. The reason of French officialization in Equatorial Guinea is the Franc CFA, Guinee-Bissau (Portuguese former colony) join the Franc CFA "libre-échange".

Demographics: Nigeria is already the most populous country of Africa, in 2050 too, but french-speaker countries as Mali, Niger, RD of Congo, etc, have now a better demographic level.
One example:
Today RDC has 65 million inhabitants, Nigeria 134 million (the double), and Niger 11 million.
But demographic impacts will change the datas in 2050: projections: Nigeria will have 260,000,000 inhabitants (2006-2050 X2), D.R of Congo 200,000,000 inhabitants (2006-2050 X3,7) and Niger 55,000,000 inhabitants (2006-2050 X5).
Youth   Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:20 pm GMT

I am not a die hard Anglophile manic as my argument is Arabic not English is increasing Importance as the language of communication in the Arab league.

You are the French fanatic to think that Arab would choose another language such as French over their own, because its more "intellectual".

I Have been to Egypt (for a holiday) and i have Arab channels as my Father likes to watch them, I have seen discussions in the Arab league where Arabic is the only spoken language. I have seen many programs that discuss politics about the Arab world, and has participants from all over the Arab world. they all discuss in MSA, which is seen as the more respected way of talking Arabic.

MSA is not some alien language to the Arabs, most Arab can understand it as it just a version of Arabic without local slangs.

Also Egypt was part of the British Empire longer than the French, that why more people speak English as a second language.

"the United Kingdom seized control of Egypt's government in 1882....
Between 1882 and 1906, a local nationalist movement for independence was taking shape. The Dinshaway Incident prompted Egyptian opposition to take a stronger stand against British occupation and the first political parties were founded. After the first World War, Saad Zaghlul and the Wafd Party led the Egyptian nationalist movement after gaining a majority at the local Legislative Assembly. When the British exiled Zaghlul and his associates to Malta on March 8, 1919, Egypt witnessed its first modern revolution. Constant revolting by the Egyptian people throughout the country led Great Britain to issue a unilateral declaration of Egypt's independence on February 22, 1922.[13]"

Read any book about Somalia Civil war

"Somali is the main language and is used virtually everywhere and nearly every Somali citizen speaks it. Minority languages do exist, such as Af-Maay, which is spoken in areas in South-Central Somalia by the Rahanweyn tribes, as well as variants of Swahili (Barawe), which are spoken along the coast by Arabs.

A considerable amount of Somalis speak Arabic due to religious reasons and ties with the Arab world and media. English is also widely used and taught, Italian used to be a major language but due to the civil war and lack of education only the older generation speaks it."
youth   Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:26 pm GMT
Here some information about what about to Somalia education system.

"Education up to the civil war of 1990 was free and compulsory. A comprehensive government programme was able to raise the literacy rate from about 5% in 1970 to 60% in the mid-1980s. At this time, elementary schools numbered nearly 300,000 pupils and there were good secondary schools and vocational institutions.

Unfortunately, because of years of civil war, the educational system has virtually collapsed and most schools have been closed. Even the Somali National University, which was founded as early as 1954 in Mogadishu, had to close its doors to some 5,000 students.

At the time of writing (September 2001) there seems to be a slow return to normalcy."

The north has been quicker to response as they where not badly affected by the Civil war as the south and become more stable more quicker than the south.

Also once the south become more stable, most schools where private and therefore catered to requirements of the people. That why most instructed in Somali and tech Arabic (religion) and English because it is an
international language.
Jeunesse   Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:04 pm GMT
No you're not a die hard anglophile, Youth but your a die hard hispanic fanatics and pretending to be a moslem.

I know who you are, you're Sam who come here in this forum just to attack the French and in your mind you think you can change the situation to make Spanish the 2nd most important language. Well, that would be a miilion miles from reality.
Jeunesse   Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:23 pm GMT
Souther Somalia still prefers Italian over English and your Spanish is dead in Africa, Youth.

You're not a native from Djibouti who grew up in England. You're Sam disguising as a moslem who is very envious of the French language. You can't fool me.
Youth   Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:34 pm GMT
Some people on these board are completely paranoid.

I dont care if you dont believe were i come from. I do not know how to spanish.

"Souther Somalia still prefers Italian over English and your Spanish is dead in Africa, Youth. "

Juenesse if you read my OP, you will see i said Spanish plays a monor role in Africa, so i am not this Hispanic you think i am.

Also please tell me who told you southern somali prefer to speak Italian, what are you basing this statement on.

I am a somali, and I know plentely of Somali people who come from the south and it is only the older generation that can speak Italian. Whilst the younger genration speak Arabic or english, sometimes both.

Italians is no longer taught in schools of Somalia. In Eritrea, there is only one School that instructs in Italian, whilst the rest instruct in Arabic or Tigre, Tigrinya.

"The local Tigrinya and the wider Arabic language are the two predominant languages for official purposes."

"Italian is spoken by some in Italian colonies in Africa (Libya, Somalia and Eritrea). However, its use has sharply dropped off since the colonial period. While Italian was the language of instruction in Eritrea during the colonial period, as of 1997, there is only one Italian language school remaining, with 470 pupils.[5] "

I have no problem with French, as i want to learn to speak it. However, i particuarly hate some French people such as "guest", who have this superiority complex about their language, thinking it is more "intellecual" than other languages, and assume that other people would prefer to speak it instead of their own langauge.
Jeunesse   Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:36 am GMT
That's true, Italian has dropped off considerably in Eritrea but in Southern Somalia, it's a different story. I asked my Somali friends if Itlaian was completely discarded in Southern Somalia and they told me NO. Italian is very important for Southern Somalia and it cannot just be dropped as medium a of instruction.

You're so inconsistent. First you denied that you are a Somali then you declared that you're from Djibouti who grew up in England and now you're Somali again based on your last message. It would be hard for us to believe the information that you post as if you're just inventing tham. You haven't been there, have you?
Jeunesse   Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:23 am GMT
the last post tells you how stupid you are and how little you know about Africa.

I am from Djibouti, but ethnically I am Somali. The Djibouti population is made up of two main types of people, Afars and Somalis.

Remmember Djibouti was called French somaliland before it was called Territories of Afar and Issa (name of dominant somali Clan), then when it gained its independence in 1977 it was renamed Djibouti.

I know you do not know any Somalis, as they would have told you Italian is not the language of instruction anymore, which is now somali and arabic. As now most of the schools are private and not governmental, and most parents there favour Somali and Arabic over Italian.

I have backed my statements with facts, all you do is attack me whether I am Djibouti.

You are ignorant of whats happening in Somali, and for that matter wider aspect Afica. You think Aficans hold European languages to high esteem over their own, then you are sorely mistaken.

The only reasons most Africans countries maintained their Opperier languages, was beacuse in most of these countries there are hundrends of native languages. Therefore in order to avoid conflict they kept the langauges from the Colonial period.

However, Somali is an exception in Africa as it is one of the most homogeneous countries, as most of the population are Somalis, speak one langauge (somali) and have 1 religion (islam). Therefore, that is why Somali was made an offical language along with Arabic ( due to joining the arab league). No european langauge was made offical, even though it may have been taught in schools.

I have already given facts, proving Italian has even fallen in Eritrea, where there is a stabe government and a fuctioning education system.

In somalia the situation of Italian is even worse, where it is no longer taught or spoken by the younger generation.
Youth   Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:24 am GMT
sorry the last post was mine
Guest   Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:26 am GMT
I won't believe you again Youth becasue of the inconsistency in your meassge. All I know is your a hispanic fanatic in disguise and you're frustrated because Spanish is dead in Africa and you know that Italian is more likely to survive than Spanish in that continent.

French is the prefered language by the Maghrebian in writng no matter what you asy even if if Algeria, Morocco, and Tunisia are members of the Arab league and that's the only time they prefer to use Arabic over French.

The number of native speakers of French in Subsahran Africa is increasing unlike in non-francophone Africa that you can hardly find native spakers of the language of their colonial masters.

Spanish is dead in Africa and is far less important than Italian in Africa. So Sam/Youth stop using Arabic and pretending that you're a Somali moslem who grew up in England in anticipitation that if someone ask you to write in Somali because you cannot in reality.
SOMALI IS NOT WRITTEN and it has no official script and up to now Somalians have not come out an ortography for the Somali language using the Latin script. That's why Italin and English are the only languages used in education not Arabic although the latter is used in religion. So you cannot fool me.
Youth   Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:32 am GMT
I find you very offensive.

I am not Hispanic you say, i said in my original post that spanish plays a minor role in Africa.

Sorry to disappoint you but Somali is written using the Latin script, which was chosen over the Arabic script because of printing machines were readly available in Latin script.

70% of the Somali population (including the Diaspora) is literate, and can write in Somali, which is a great achievement for a language recently written.

Also Arabic is the most widely studied foreign language in Somalia closely followed by English.

You have given no facts to back your statement that Italian is still taught in Somalia.

You cannot accept in you small Eurocentric mind that Africans prefer their own language then Europeans.

I suggest you read about Africa, as your knowledge of it is extremely poor and is stack in the colonial times. Times have moved on, things have changed get with the times.
Guest   Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:26 pm GMT
Cool flag.
Guest   Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:31 pm GMT
Somalia is not a written language! Shut up you hispanic pretending to be a Somali!