Most complex IE language (Morphologically)

zatsu   Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:09 pm GMT
<<Spanish makes use of the preposition A for the personal accusative : I love my mother: Amo A mi madre. >>

I don't know about Spanish, but in Portuguese that wouldn't be a preposition, but an article.
For instance:

Pt. Vou visitar A minha mãe. *article, direct idea, Who're you going to visit? ~*
Sp. Voy a visitar A mi madre. (?)
En. I'm going to visit my mother.

Pt. Vou fazer uma visita À minha mãe. *preposition, Whom are you going to visit?*
Sp. Voy a hacer una visita A mi madre.
En. I'm going to make a visit TO my mother.


(Actually the Pt. "à" doesn't usually work as a preposition, but here it's a contraction between "visita a + a minha mãe" = preposition + article = à.
But don't mind that...)
Guest   Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:19 pm GMT
A nao poderia ser um artigo em espanhol
os artigos determinativos espanhois sao el, la, los, las
os artigos determinativos portugueses sao: o, a, os, as. Como poder ver nao existe em espanhol o artigo feminino a. A é somente uma preposiçao em espanhol.
bye
Guest   Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:20 pm GMT
diz-se como podes ver.
Foi um erro.
zatsu   Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:45 pm GMT
<<os artigos determinativos espanhois sao el, la, los, las
os artigos determinativos portugueses sao: o, a, os, as>>

OK, tem lógica... oops

Então em ambos os exemplos em Espanhol "a" é uma preposição?
Há algum caso em que "a" não seja uma preposição como, por exemplo, em conjunções?
Sergio   Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:22 pm GMT
Olà Zatsu e Guest,

Well, I think that the confussion arose from the fact that in Pt, as in It, some substantives are expressed always with the determinated article.

Es: mi madre
It: la mia madre
Pt: a minha madre

Otherwise, what Guest pointed out in his/her explanation is true. Spanish has this peculiarity of employing the preposition "a" with direct object when the object is a person or a pet.

Examples:

Quiero ver la casa (inanimated object)
Quiero ver a mi hermano (human being)
Quiero ver el elefante (living thing, but not close to whom is speaking)
Quiero ver a "Snoopy" (here supposing that this is the name of the speaker's dog)

What do you think?



in the sentences above, "a" is the preposition in Spanish, where
Guest   Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:52 pm GMT
In Spanish you could also say:
Mi amor
or
Amor mio
furrykef   Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:02 pm GMT
It's mío, with an accent, but yes. I think the same applies in Italian... there's the clichéd expression "Mamma mia!" (more typically rendered "Mama mia!" in English), following the same grammar pattern.
zatsu   Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:18 pm GMT
Thanks for your explanation above, Sergio. It was very clear and helpful ^^


Yes, in Portuguese you can also say "meu amor", "amor meu" and "minha mãe" without the article. It depends on the context though, more like an expression.
Guest   Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:05 pm GMT
en italiano se dice mia madre sin articulo. :-)
olaszinho   Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:35 am GMT
En italiano no se usa el articulo determinado ante los nombres de parentesco en singular:
mia madre
mio nonno ( mi abuelo)
mio cugino (mi primo)
mia zia (mi tia)
mia sorella (mi hermana)
mio fratello (mi hermano)
pero en plural hay que emplear el articulo
i miei nonni (mis abuelos)
i miei cugini (mis primos)
le mie zie (mis tias)
Le mie sorelle (mis hermanas)
i miei fratelli (mis hermanos)
Sergio   Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:25 pm GMT
Hola olaszinho,

Gracias por la corrección. Quise mantener el mismo ejemplo para explicar la confusión, y terminé confundiéndome yo también.
Rolando   Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:32 am GMT
What I dont understand about italian it that it has all this

definite articles

Il (sing., before consonants)
Lo (sing., before z, gn, or s + cons.)
L' (sing., before vowels)
I (plural, before consonants)
Gli (plural, before vowels, z, gn, or s + cons)

Then in Feminin

La
L'
Le (Which I know that they are for)

Indefinite Articles

Dei (before consonants)
Degli (before vowels, z, gn, or s + cons)

Feminine

Delle... (before vowels and consonants)


Then in FRENCH...

They have

Elles & Ils how is someone supose to know if they are not just using it for plural...?

Can anyone explain...?
Guest   Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:20 am GMT
indefinitive articles:
singular
un uno, una un'
plural

dei degli delle
Guest   Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:24 am GMT
elles = ellas
ils = ellos
no son articulos sino pronombres personales
Stewart   Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:39 pm GMT
Polish is the most complex indo-european language with a solid margine. But how it does againt lets say hungarian, arabic or mandarin chinese I don't know.