why are you using "Anglo-Saxon" all the time?
I am an American of French and America-Indian origin who has just moved to France. I have to tell you after I arrived here that I was surprised to learn that I was "Anglo-Saxon." I have finally decided that the usage of the term is a lazy, and inaccurate, way for Frenchman to quickly catagorize Brits and Americans whenever they do something the French don't like.
But since we are categorizing people, does "Anglo-Saxon" include Australian Aborigines, American-Indians, Arican-Americans, English-speaking Africans, Eskimos, and Hawaiians?
Find another term.
I personally don't care what they want to use in French or Spanish, but don't call us Anglo-Saxons in English because that is just inaccurate.
Oh, everybody finds shorthand ways to categorize other groups. Why we've all decided to take such umbrage at one term or another is just a mystery!
I might have a more positive attitude to the usage of the term 'Anglo-Saxon' in this way if I thought that it was ever used in a positive context. But it never seems to be.
Hey, nobody ever seems to use "American" in a positive context, but we get over it!
Once again, as used in French, spanish or Italian, the term "Anglo-saxon/Anglosajon/Anglosassone" are just broad terms used for describing the English-speaking-based nations such as USA, English Canada, Australia, New Zealand or UK.
It has no negative conotations; it just allows to describe the common points and the common culture of those countries. It doesn't mean that all those countries are "ethnically" the same people.
It is used the same way than "Hispanic" to speak about Spanish-speaking based countries.
There are differences, there are common points. From an outside point of view the common points are much more visible than the differences, that the reason why we use the term "Anglo-saxon" to speak about these common points. Anglo-saxon litterature, anglo-saxon rock, anglo-saxon societies, etc.
In this case why are not you shocked that most Americans use "hispanic" to speak about very diverse nations where everything is not Spanish, but also Native African or Asian, but who are linked togther by Spanish language ?
« In this case why are not you shocked that most Americans use "hispanic" to speak about very diverse nations where everything is not Spanish, but also Native African or Asian, but who are linked togther by Spanish language ? »
I am. It never occurs to me to group Guatemala, Argentina and the Dominican Republic together.
It's just that most of the time when I hear the term used by French people, it describes something that the British and the Americans supposedly do that French don't like. It often seems that if French people like something about Britain, then it's a 'British' or 'English' thing — fine. But if they don't like something about the USA, it becomes an 'Anglo-Saxon' thing (often regardless of whether what they're describing is really similar to anything in Britain or Australia etc.).
However, my main objection is the use of the term in English, usually by French speakers. I see it as a 'faux ami' or a 'false cognate', because it simply isn't the same word. It is the same as me using the French word 'sensible' to mean the same as 'raisonable', simply because 'sensible' looks the same as the English word which means 'raisonable'. The word 'Anglo-Saxon' does not have the same connotations in English speaking countries as it might have in, say, France. And even then, its connotations in the US are probably not the same as in Britain — indeed, the American term 'WASP' (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) doesn't exist here. Basically, if I were to describe Britain as an 'Anglo-Saxon' country in English, I'd be making a pretty racist statement.
People need to remember that just because a word in one language looks the same or very similar to a word in another language, or even within two variations of the same language (e.g. British and American English), it doesn't mean that the words mean the same thing or have the same connotations. It is therefore important to be sensitive about this sort of thing. My objection is not with what people want to say in French, Spanish or Italian, but with the use of the term in English by speakers of those languages.
<<Basically, if I were to describe Britain as an 'Anglo-Saxon' country in English, I'd be making a pretty racist statement. >>
In the US, you'd only be making an "ethnocentric" statement, as "Anglo-Saxon" is only an "ethnicity" to us, not an entire "race" unto themselves. ;)
See? Terms can vary even WITHIN a language, much less between different ones.
And then, people from Scotland sometimes call people from England 'Anglo-Saxons', in a joking-fashion. And then, my grandfather described the Germans as 'Anglo-Saxon beer-drinkers', emphasising both the shared ethnic-origins of the English and the Germans and the similar culture.
I think we just have to accept that 'Anglo-Saxon' is an extremely loaded term, and a term which should be avoided wherever possible since it has such different connotations to different people.
" It never occurs to me to group Guatemala, Argentina and the Dominican Republic together "
Despite some differences, such as different looking, foods or climates, those people share the same language, practice the same religion, have the same holydays, listen the same pop singers, learn at shool the same litterature and poetry, and other spanish attitudes, etc.
These are a lot of fundamental things (more than looking of foods) that they share, and that for exemple don't share the population from English-speaking countries of America.
Benjamin, I think you tend to think to much in all white vs all black; It is not because we can associates things (countries or people in this case) taht they are all complelty the same. On another way it is not because they have differences that they have nothing in common.
That is whay Spanish-speaking countries, despite the huge diversity that can present have enough common points to be called under one concept - even if that does not mean that everything is similar, but just that those countries have common points that other countries outside of this group doesn't have.
OK, you don't like the term "Anglo-saxon" in English, so let's use another, which is, in my opinion not completly synonym is "Anglophone".
fab : « OK, you don't like the term "Anglo-saxon" in English, so let's use another, which is, in my opinion not completly synonym is "Anglophone". »
fab a raison : moi aussi je suis anglophone (d'adoption), mais je ne suis pas anglo-saxon.
Alors, Greg, tu veux continuer à utiliser le terme « Anglo-Saxon » en anglais avec la même significance qu'en français, bien que tu saches parfaitement que cela n'a pas les mêmes connotations en anglais qu'en français ? Il faut accepter que certains termes n'existent pas dans toutes les languages. D'autre part, on peut dire : « Britain, Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and possibly South Africa, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Barbados (etc.) » pour remplacer « Anglo-Saxon countries » en anglais.
<<Alors, Greg, tu veux continuer à utiliser le terme « Anglo-Saxon » en anglais avec la même significance qu'en français, bien que tu saches parfaitement que cela n'a pas les mêmes connotations en anglais qu'en français ? Il faut accepter que certains termes n'existent pas dans toutes les languages. D'autre part, on peut dire : « Britain, Ireland, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and possibly South Africa, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Barbados (etc.) » pour remplacer « Anglo-Saxon countries » en anglais.>>
Sometimes "Anglosphere" can be used for that broader meaning. While "Anglo-Saxon" makes me think of a historical group of Germanic tribes, "Anglosphere" makes me think of the aforementioned regions and nations when referencing certain common bonds in traditions in law, culture and language, while generally ignoring ethnic heritage (the 2000 US Census found that 8.7% of Americans were of English ancestry, which in ethnic terms hardly makes the US an "Anglo" nation no matter what some might claim. In fact, at the time of the census there were twice as many Americans of German descent alone than English in the US).
If the words does not exist we could creat a neologism.
I have one : "Anglic", which is construted the same way that the word "Hispanic" and could be used the same way.