LL and Y distinction

<< Usad esas formas al hablar con vuestros amigos o en casa. Os aconsejo que uséis las formas del espanol estandar en un foro internacional como éste! >>

Guest, you cannot force people to speak the way you want it to be or the way you know it.

You decided to use vosotros, which is not used in Latin America, and I respect it.

I'm just telling you the situation in Central America. I never forced you to use ustedes instead of vosotros, either.

Saludos,


Ian

<<Usad esas formas al hablar con vuestros amigos o en casa. Os aconsejo que uséis las formas del espanol estandar en un foro internacional como éste! Cuando haya un idioma llamado argentino empezaremos a emplear el vos y sus formas verbales! >>

Entre otras cosas, el español "estándar" usa la Ñ y signo de exclamación al comienzo de frase, así: ¡No hay policía de la lengua que me impida usar el voseo en cuanta situación se me cante la regalada gana!
Dicho ésto y recobrando la compostura, debo agregar que, como todo hablante cuerdo, en el trato informal uso el voseo y en el trato más formal el usted (a saber, si su majestad el Rey me honrara con su atención pidiendo mi silencio).

Gabriel como soy italiano y vivo en mi pais, no tengo un teclado apto para escribir todos los acentos espanoles. Conozco muy bien todas las reglas ortograficas del castellano pero al escribir con el ordenador no puedo emplearlas. Te ruego que seas indulgente, gracias.

Creo que su comentario no eran tanto sobre los acentos, si no mas bien sobre la actitud tomada en tu mensaje anterior donde practicamente forzaste a los demas a ocupar "vosotros" segun tu la forma estandar.

*Excuse the accents.*

Guest italiano, salute,

Prova a fare Alt Gr con il tasto 4 e poi n. Dimmi, per favore, se hai riuscito a fare la ñ.

Lo stesso per il portoghese "coração", "canções".

Grazie Mallorquì, c'ho provato ma purtroppo non ci sono riuscito. Dovrò continuare a scrivere scorrettamente in tutte le lingue :-) Ti ringrazio comunque

I found out about Antimoon when I found this page www.typeit.org, you can use it to type in many languages.

Using special combinations could be embarrassing. I understand when people who don't have a spanish keyboard type manana, but despite it is not oficially used in Spanish, if you write mannana for example, everybody will understand that you really wanted to say mañana but you couldn't type the letter ñ. This letter was invented by Galician monks who since they had to copy books by hand they found annoying to write nn in many Spanish words, so they invented the ñ symbol as an abreviation of nn.

Yes, I read that the Spanish ñ originated from nn. I didn't know that it was Galician monks who invented it.

A good example of the Ll sound is the popular video of the King telling Chávez to shut up, the King does not have yeísmo and there's a video where his por qué no te callas is repeated over and over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cZFinVFubQ

Thanks, Rodrigo!

I watched the video, but it didn't sound to me as LL. Perhaps my ears are not sensitive enough. :shrug:

Maybe try the related videos, the editing does cut him in the middle of the word.

I think what would really help is a simple recording distinguishing a minimal pair -- a word that differs only by the "y" vs. "ll" sound, such as "haya" and "halla".

There are so many clips in Valencian, Portuguese, or Italian in Youtube.
Just listen to how they pronounce LL, LH, or GLI respectively.

I don't speak Valencian, Portuguese, or Italian, so I wouldn't even know when the phoneme in question is being said. My ears are also not finely-tuned to small phonemic differences, so it would probably be difficult for me to notice the difference except when it is clearly isolated. I need a good, high-quality sound recording that demonstrates the contrast.