American English - different language?

Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:49 am GMT
Some people say American English has become a different language from British English. I think most linguists would say it is only a dialect though. Certainly it is almost totally intelligible to all other English speakers. The greatest difference is in the vocabulary, even though this difference is almost totally negligible all in all. The grammatical structure is almost identical apart from a few differences with regards to a greater use of the simple past in American English at times plus a greater use of the subjunctive form. So my question is when does a language count as a different language to the language it stems from. How does American English compare to British English compared to how, say, Swedish compares to Norwegian (which of course are considered different languages)?

On a side note, I think American English will continue to have a big impact on other forms of English, yet Americans have not completely adopted their newer ways of speaking. I remember I asked an American colleague recently 'Did you already do (something)?. To which she replied 'Yes, I have'. Afterwards I thought we had both said it the wrong way round, if we had both adhered to our 'dialects' I would have used the present perfect and she the simple past, yet it was vice versa lol
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:50 am GMT
By the way I'm not saying Swedish stems from Norwegian, just that they're close as languages.
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:53 am GMT
I recommend you to acquire German accent, it's beautiful. You can watch Hollywood movies about the II WW and see how German accent is. When you master it you'll be able to give commands to your job partners with such an accent that they will obey you blindly and you'll climb up many positions in you job.
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:04 am GMT
Oh, danke für deinen Rat. Ich spreche schon Deutsch, obwohl der Akzent immer noch ein kleines Problem bleibt. Ich weiss aber, wie du das meinst. Wenn ich Befehle auf Deutsch sage, macht jeder sofort das, was ich gesagt habe ;)
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:54 am GMT
Some would argue that American English is not even a dialect. Try comparing dialects of different languages such as Bavarian with the Low German (Plattdeutsch) or Swiss German with "high German". Or Mandaren with Cantonese. You will soon find that standard American English is not so drastically different from standard British English as many would like to think.

There are "dialects" of English spoken in the UK that are much harder for your "average" Brit to understand than American English. There are also many features of American English that are older and therefore in many respects arguably more "correct" than British English.
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:07 am GMT
Oh, danke für deinen Rat. Ich spreche schon Deutsch, obwohl der Akzent immer noch ein kleines Problem bleibt. Ich weiss aber, wie du das meinst. Wenn ich Befehle auf Deutsch sage, macht jeder sofort das, was ich gesagt habe ;)

Nicht hier...Post your messages auf Deutsch in the languages thread with your little winking emoticon.
Uriel   Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:34 am GMT
<<I remember I asked an American colleague recently 'Did you already do (something)?. To which she replied 'Yes, I have'. Afterwards I thought we had both said it the wrong way round, if we had both adhered to our 'dialects' I would have used the present perfect and she the simple past, yet it was vice versa lol >>

Americans are equally used to both, actually. There is no dialectical constraint against either.
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:56 am GMT
"Some people say American English has become a different language from British English. "

You can always find *some people* who will believe just about anything no matter how silly. Are you trolling the forum?
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:04 am GMT
Oh, did you read the "Heaveno" thread too?
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:08 am GMT
Heavens, No!
Aidan McLaren   Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:08 am GMT
How is American English more "correct" than British English, guest? Just because Americans speak an older form of English doesn't mean it's more correct, it means it's more in alignment with an older form of English.

In that case, the Geordie accent and dialect is even more "correct" than that of American English, as it wasn't as touched by the Normans as much as the other parts of England (particularly south England).
Travis   Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:58 am GMT
I just had to give my word on this subject. The matter is that North American English is genetically southern English English, having split from such later than most major English English dialect groups split apart. Furthermore, it split from the dialects which form the basis of modern standard English English. This explains why most of NAE, aside from certain parts of NAE with strong Irish and Scottish English influence, often seems more standard and more understandable to many speakers of standard English English than most English English dialects.

However, at the same time, since the point where NAE split from southern English English, which was approximately the end of the Early New English period, NAE has taken a different path from southern English English. This is especially true of NAE dialects which developed away from the Atlantic coast, as sound change in southern English English was not transmitted to such dialects. This is particularly true of phonology, where NAE has taken a radically different course from southern English English.

As for the actual status of North American English relative to English English today, I would have to say that while conservative General American is actually awfully close to Received Pronunciation, actual NAE dialects may definitely be further from RP in practice. Even still, only the very most divergent NAE dialects are at all comparable in distance from Standard English to English English dialects outside southern England, as their differences from such tend to comprise post-breakup phonological changes rather than phonological differences rooted deeper in the past of English and relatively superficial differences in usage rather than fundamental syntactic and morphological differences.
Brady   Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:04 am GMT
I would argue that American English is not a different language. Almost all Americans can speak and understand proper English well. However, when we're amongst ourselves and have no reason to speak in grammatically correct English (relaxing, not typing papers or doing work) we (I'm American) use a lot of slang in our speech to shorten everything said. For example:

"You gonna go with em?" instead of "Are you going to go with them?"

We have a lot of slang phrases too, such a "Born with a silver spoon in your mouth," "Brownie points," "Cream puff," and "Jump through hoops."
Aidan McLaren   Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:46 am GMT
Technically the West Country dialect shares a lot similarities with American English, no?
Guest   Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:49 am GMT
How much further would it need to go to be a different language?