American

Josh   Wednesday, December 04, 2002, 19:37 GMT
Every time I come in here, I get surprised to see so many messages in this thread since I started. Thanks for your postings, guys.

I guess it can be summarized that Americans like to call American English American and Brits don't like the idea even if it's not British English that they want to call American.

I find Rosalind's previous posting very interesting. Indonesia and Malaysia both speak the same language but different names.
Mark   Thursday, December 05, 2002, 13:31 GMT
I don't know why American want to call American English American. Both the UK and the USA speak the same language though.
Marushka   Thursday, December 05, 2002, 18:20 GMT
You go Syb! It'd be a pretty crap language wouldn't it with just one country speaking it?? What would be the point??
Sybill   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 12:27 GMT
I know what would be the point!
Kevin   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 19:28 GMT
Dear Josh,

As I am currently studying English Language and Literature AS/A Level, here’s some brief points on why the American version of the English language should not be changed or labelled as purely American.

First of all, it doesn't show much consideration or respect towards the languages of the Native Americans, of which they are fighting to preserve their traditions, culture and language. Secondly...

...English Language is the chief medium of communication of people in the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and numerous other countries. It is the official language of many nations in the Commonwealth of Nations and is widely understood and used in all of them. It is spoken in more parts of the world than any other language and by more people than any other tongue except Chinese.
An important development of English outside Great Britain occurred with colonization of North America. American English may be considered to include the English spoken in Canada, although the Canadian variety retains some features of British pronunciation, spelling, and vocabulary. There are slighter differences in spelling, pitch, and stress as well. Written American English also has a tendency to be more rigid in matters of grammar and syntax, but at the same time appears to be more tolerant of the use of neologisms.
Despite these differences, it is often difficult to determine-apart from context-whether serious literary works have been written in Great Britain or the United States/Canada--or, for that matter, in Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa.
There are many different forms of English: Pidgin English, African-American English, Scots English, Irish English, Welsh English, British English, American English, Australian English etc. and the list goes on...there are too many forms of the English language for the Americans to re-name their form ‘American’. You Yanks don’t have a God-given right to re-name your language American; you’re no different to the other English-speaking nations. Why can’t you just accept that American English is simply another form of English. No wonder a recent poll carried out by Americans showed that Anti-Americanism is on the increase on a worldwide basis, especially in France and Turkey. You keep trying to single-yourselves out from other countries as if your any different to other nations, and now you have even gone so low as to wanting to rename the English American tongue to American, pathetic!
The Americans should not be singled out and given special status above their form of the English language, and re-naming it 'American'. The languages, on the basis are to similar to British English or any other English spoken around the world. Why should the Americans be singled-out and have their form of English re-named American, what about other English-speaking countries!
It's about time that Americans in general accept that your English is just another dialect of the British English that colonized there; you are no different to the other English-speaking countries of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and numerous others. And it seems that only the Americans are making a fuss over it. Either extremely patriotic or just god damn stupid without realising the concept of the English language and its modern development! You don’t even realise that, if the American English were to be renamed American, other countries would probably soon follow. You’d have an American and an Australian speaking virtually the same language and being able to understand each other. But for no intelligent reason, the American would be speaking American and the Australian Australian. And you’d end-up going round to every English speaking country, and disgracefully disregarding his or her native languages. For example, if the Irish form of English were to be renamed Irish, confusion would arise over Irish and Irish Gaelic, or what about Wales, the English spoken in Wales would be called Welsh instead of Welsh-English and the Welsh language would be known as what? Welsh-Celtic, your discussion is idiotic and you have obviously not thoroughly thought of the impact of your proposal on a world-wide basis, but once again, think only of the impact on America as if the nation weren’t on the same earth!
Respectfully Josh, American English is just another form of English. And doesn’t deserve individual language status. Plus, I should think that most of the people who want to learn English would actually want to be taught the English or British English, not American English!!!

The United States of America is a multi-cultural nation, and this is the basis of what the country has been built on. In the USA, English is spoken by 86% of the population and as an official language. Spanish 8% and French 1%. Including other languages. In Australia English is spoken almost a 100% official language. And so, Australia holds a better claim to rename their English-Australian to Australia than the 86% of Americans.
In the United Kingdom, English is spoken by 97% of the population as their first language/official; Indian sub-continent languages hold 2% and Welsh 1%. (About 21% of the population of Wales is Welsh-speaking). Other languages of the Britain include Cornish, Scots Gaelic, Cumbrian, Pictish and Manx. The Republic of Ireland has a 95% English speaking population, and a 5% Irish Gaelic speaking.

The United States is no different to other English-speaking nations. Yank, accept the facts!

Regards,

Kevin
Clark   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 20:49 GMT
I think this argument is a bit of a catch-22. On one hand, you have people from around the world who just want to call the English language, where ever spoken, English. But then you have certain people who feel that the English language is only spoken in England and if spoken in another country, it should not be called English. Why can't we just all call it English?
Kevin   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 21:13 GMT
Dear Clark,

I totally agree with you Clark, that's exactly the point I tried to make in my previous post. Whether the English language is spoken within the British Isles, Europe, United States, Canada, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and other countries, the simple fact is that it is still English. Naturally there is going to be a variety in pronounciation, words/phrases, dialect, accent etc. But still a varient of the English language

I can understand labeling the English language within other countries as follows, but not to totally rename it either as American or South African rather than English: English [UK], English [US], English [AU], English [RSA], English [NZ] etc.
There is a definite difference of the English language in the any country, e.g.'England': English [Liverpudlian], English [Cumbrian], English [Somersetian] etc. Given the difference in accent, each are equaly as English as the other. And are given regional dialect names such as Liverpool [Scouse], Plymouth [Janner], East London [Cockney], Newcastle [Geordie], Birmingham [Brumie] etc.
Would you agree Clark?
Clark   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 21:41 GMT
Kevin, yes I would agree with you. Those accents that you list are just local varieties of English though. ANd I think the argument one would get there is that they are all spoken in England, so they are "English." But Kevin, you fail to aknowledge the many British people who have said that the Americans should not call [American] English, English.

I came up with a solution; I am sort of playing the devil's advocate though, Americans can just refer to American English as "Anglo." I thought of this because the origins of the name "English" come from the tribe of Angles who came to England in the 5th century. And I came up with this reasoning because when you have people from Britain for exampl, who do not like for the Americans to call their language "English," this term "Anglo" would not be "English," and at the same time, it is a lot easier to say than "American English."

I was told or I read somewhere that the most common words of most languages are the shortest. They get this way from evolution and use of the word(s). For example, there were horse-drawn-carriages a long time ago. That term was shortened to "carriage" because no one wanted to say those three words. And with the advent of "cars," it was just shortened even further (this is just my assumption--with the advent of motorised vehicles, "car" could have come from "CARriage.").
Kevin   Saturday, December 07, 2002, 22:34 GMT
Clark,

Interesting!, although personally I think 'Anglo' as to describe a language seems a bit too short, although it's better than 'American'. Maybe we should call the American English 'Anglo-American', others would include 'Anglo-Australian' and 'Anglo-Canadian'. I think what most Americans want is to have the term 'American' in there somewhere, simply calling the language 'American' is not acceptable, and complete dis-regards the English roots.
Although 'Anglo-American' sounds much more modern and maybe sounds better than just plain English.
I have come to the conclusion that English should only be used to describe the English spoken in England, there would be no need to call English 'Anglo-English', the word England it's self derives from "the Angles Land, Angle-land-or today known as Eng-land".

All other countries should have the 'Anglo-' in front if they speak English, some would be known as 'Anglo-Welsh', others would include 'Anglo-Scottish', 'Anglo-Irish' etc. They would not be confused with the Celtic languages: Welsh, Scottish-Gaelic, Irish-Gaelic.

This way, no one is going to be confused or take offence. To simply call it American is no way going to happen, or to even call it Australian. But I like the idea of 'Anglo-American' and 'Anglo-Australian'. What do you think?

Here's a good example of shortening a word, this Welsh-word is the name given to an ancient rural village in North Wales, UK called:

"Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"

The name means 'Saint Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel, near a rapid whirlpool and the church of Saint Tysilio of the red cave'.

Obviously, not many people are going to say all that pronounciation every time, even Welsh-speakers. Although once you can say it, it's simple.
Most Welsh speakers, like my self simply say "Llanfairpwllgwyngyll", people who can't speak Welsh often or not try to at least say "Llanfair-PG", they say "Llanfair" in Welsh, but pronounce the "PG" in English.

Regards,

Kevin