Prejudice & accents in England....

Simon   Wednesday, May 21, 2003, 07:32 GMT
It doesn't sound like any Dutch speech trait that I know of. But of course Dutch has changed a lot in the last few hundred years.
Sara   Thursday, May 29, 2003, 16:29 GMT
Well, I'm a mancunsian, though I'm constantly being told I'm 'well spoken'.

Intoehr words, I'm not a Liam Gallagher clone.

I went to Oxford for an interview at the university and instantly felt inferior, because of this I decided to go to Manchester University.

I think that the centralisation of this country plays a large role. London is the capital and EVERYTHING happens in London if its of any importance. London is the origin (I'm assuming) of the RP 'posh' accent. Therefore, to work in London and to be accepted, you'd need to speak with this accent. Thats how it worked in the past, and we're only slowly shaking it off.

Slightly OT, but as far as mancunians are concerned, I hate the way we were portrayed in the TV show Frasier.

And how northerners are portrayed in Coronation Street, as if we never went beyond cobbled streets and pub lunches. You wouldn't thing the soap was filmed in Manchester, which has, argubly, become a somewhat cosmopolitan and modern city. The only factories left are, or have been changed into loft apartments.

And Carl.... Manchester is IMO, the best city in England :p
Rita   Friday, May 30, 2003, 03:25 GMT
i'm really interested in England and all the accents. i especially like Daniel Radcliffe's accent in Harry Potter. i also like Ron's and Oliver Wood's can someone tell me what accents these are, and where they are discriminated against?
also, can someone tell me about a place called FULHAM in england?
Antonio   Friday, May 30, 2003, 14:19 GMT

I was born in Hammersmith, which is the same district as Fulham: District of Hammersmith and Fulham, London Borough. But actually only Fulham is a district; Hammersmith is a sub-part.
Fulham is the area of south-west London that lies on the north banks of the River Thames, just to the west of Chelsea. The area is believed to be named after the Saxon chief Fulla, who once lived in the area.
It gained the status of ´exclusive residential´ after many wealthy families moved and homed there. The House of the Bishops, Fulham Palace, is also there.
I found an observation on that Palace on the net: "The Palace used to be the largest moated site in Europe, until the mile-long moat was filled in the early 20th century. What does remain, however, are the gardens, which are planted with a wide variety of herbs and rare plants, a collection believed to date back several hundred years."
Well, Fulham isn´t residential-only nowadays, because The City grew...

Rita, I hope this helps...
Antonio   Friday, May 30, 2003, 14:20 GMT

Hammersmith IS a disctrict of its own too. I checked.
Simon   Monday, June 02, 2003, 12:21 GMT
There's a perception on the part of some people that Londoners are an elitist class running the United Kingdom. The UK institutions and perhaps the richest people in the country are based in London. However, the vast majority of Londoners are just ordinary people. Furthermore, the reason the population of London has skyrocketed over the last two hundred years is because of all the people who came there looking for opportunity. So, the city attracted people from elsewhere in England (even Mancunians, such as yourself), from Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Belgium, France, Germany, Poland and much further afield places such as Bangladesh, Jamaica, India, Pakistan, the list is endless and continues to grow. Millwall FC was founded among a mostly Scottish community in London, not among English football hooligans.

The point of all this is that the perception that London is some closed community is false. There is certainly an elite based in SE England but many of this elite are new arrivals, only in the SE because they work there. Cambridge and Oxford are not dominated by a London elite although they are part of that traditional power base that has its political institutions in London.

Most people and more to the point most Londoners would also be made to feel like **** by Oxford or Cambridge, I imagine.

Also, I think most people pick up the accent after long times in London. I could understand you might feel upset if you were discriminated against on the basis of accent but not if you simply picked up a new one that replaced your old one. Besides, true Londoners identifty far more accents than "posh" and "cockney sparrow/barrow boy".

And Sara, do you really think Eastenders gives a good all round view of London?
Rita   Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 03:23 GMT
can anyone tell me about how life is like in England?
is there a particular race that is discrimnated against or is dominant?
also, what sort of reputation does fulham have? what accents?
and what is the cockney accent? and the accent Harry Potter has?
Simon   Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 09:58 GMT
I would imagine the Fulham's relatively posh these days being next to Chelsea. For example, they couldn't get their football ground expanded because of opposition from local residents, which suggests that it has a rather bourgeois population.

Cockney is a traditional accent of an area just to the east of Central London. It was (and still is in parts I think) one of the poorest parts of London and a no go area in Victorian times. As such, it's been heavily romanticised. Most working class London accents have traits similar to Cockney and some people take great pride in being Cockney or thinking they are. Romantically, a Cockney is someone born within hearing distance of the bells of a Church in East London. Typical speech traits are:

- not pronouncing H's
- pronouncing T's at the end of syllables as glottal stops
- double negative (I ain't done nothing)
- pronouncing the TH sounds as V/F or even D
- moderate use of rhyming slang (i.e. nowhere near as much as some people would have us believe)
- prouncing post-syllabic L's as a sort of a OO or W sound

There are other grammar and word traits and also a general way of speaking. Type "Cockney" into Google and you should get some informative sites.
Kabam   Tuesday, June 03, 2003, 10:08 GMT
Thank you Simon.
rita   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 03:00 GMT
thanks simon.

so, what's life like in England? what is everyone there like?
Simon   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 06:33 GMT

London's great because there's lots to do and Fulham's a relatively nice part of it. Like any big city, there is not the warmth and the urge to integrate you you may find in a small town. But there are lots of different people in London, from all over the world, so you can find pretty much anything.

It's smellier and dirtier than Paris but also more down to earth. When I was younger I couldn't wait to get out of there. Now I can't wait to get back.

But London's not really comparable to other places in England, so it's not worth saying so much about England.
Unknown Charver   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 13:29 GMT
same as anywhere but with more emphasis on indoor activities...
Simon   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 13:36 GMT
But most of the muggings, rapes, and murders take place out of doors. As I say, "most".
unknown charver   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 13:59 GMT
is this where we get into an argument over who's city is rougher? I think cockneys are so keen on mugging each other because it's the only socially acceptable way to strike up a conversation with a stranger.
(the north will rise again!)
Simon   Thursday, June 05, 2003, 14:23 GMT
No but I think London cannot be compared with elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Not that it's better but it's still the largest city in Europe, the capital of the United Kingdom and the New York of the 19th Century. This cannot be said of any of the northern cities you might be referring to. It's just a different world.