German question

SagaSon   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 06:27 GMT
I am having difficult pronouncing "Ig" (Ç in IPA) in German ... it sounds so much like "sh", it doesn't even have an equivalent in English .... help me !!
Clark   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 15:28 GMT
In English, we sometimes write it as, "kh." Yes, this sound can be a bit tricky, and I am sure someone else here could explain it better.

Here is my shot at it though.

With the back part of your tongue, close of some of the air-flow space, and then breath out. This is how I would explain it.

Or, you can totally forget all of that, and pronounce the German "ch" like the English "sh" or the Portuguese "ch."

"Ich spreche Deutsch" sounds like "ish shpresha doitsh."
Daniel   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 16:05 GMT
Hi, SagaSon. This sound is indeed a bit tricky. Well, if you just cannot pronounce, then speak German with a Rhineland accent: they pronounce it like sh.
As a Portuguese, you know Spanish perhaps. In some words, there is a similar sound : in "la región" for instance, the ch sound is not as hard as in "el jefe". The sound in "región" comes very close to it
Ryan   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 17:07 GMT
Isn't this 'ch' sound the same as the one in Scots like in the word "loch?" If so, just listen to Sean Connery speak and try to imitate his sound as he seems to use that 'ch' sound quiet a bit even when he is trying to speak normal English.

Tremmert   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 17:31 GMT
I thought German 'ach' and Scottish 'loch' had the same sound?
to Ryan and Tremmert   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 18:04 GMT
There are to "ch" sounds in German : The sound talked about above always follows vowels like : i, ü, ä, ö, e , whereas the other "ch" sound (like the Scottish one) follows consonants and vowels like : o, a, u
Clark   Wednesday, July 23, 2003, 22:11 GMT
Daniel, so the Paelzisch dialect uses the "sh" for the German "ch" ? I wonder how that happened because Pennsylvania German uses theharc "ch" sound like the Scots' "loch."
Daniel   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 06:07 GMT
Hi, Clark. Sorry, Paelzisch probably doesn't do so. I didn't think about it. I was thinking about the region : Cologne - Bonn - Düsseldorf
There, you often use the sh exclusively - I don't do so though
Clark   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 18:38 GMT
Ah, seh ich gut yetzt.
Daniel   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 21:27 GMT
Clark, may I ask you a question? How old are you?
The reason why I want to know this is because whenever I read your posts in Paelzisch I have a certain picture of the person using it. Well, it's difficult to describe but perhaps it's the same with English: When I read a German text I always pay attention to the complexity of sentences, the structure, the choice of words and also the use of dialects. When I hear Paelzisch I immidiately think of a very old man from Rheinland-Pfalz and the dialect sounds quite funny to me. Nevertheless, from your posts I guess that you are still young. I hope you understand why I try to express - it's a bit difficult, though.
Bye, b.t.w. I'm 22
Clark   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 23:09 GMT
Ya Daniel, ich bin yunge. Ich bin 20 yahre alt. Ich habb zimmlich feelings ebaut die Leite der schwetze Pennsyvaanisch--alte Leite. Vielleicht das iss weil mehst Leite der deutsche Dialekte schwetz, sin alte Leite. Die Yunge schwetze Hochdeutsch odder die kool Dialekt/Schprooch. Ich gleich net es. Ich wisch das die Yunge hasse net ihre deitsche/deutsche Dialekt!

Aud Englisch:

Yes Daniel, I am young. I am 20. I have the same feelings about the people who speak Pennsylvania German--old people. Perhaps this is because most people wo speak Pennsylvania German, are old people. The young people speak High German or the cool dialect/language. I do not like it. I wish that the young people did not hate their German dialect.
Clark   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 23:12 GMT
Oops! I meant "auf."
Ryan   Thursday, July 24, 2003, 23:47 GMT
Aren't people who speak Pennsylvania German mostly Amish? Are Amish people supposed to be using computers? I don't mean to offend but am curious about German-speaking culture in the US.

Chantal   Friday, July 25, 2003, 02:55 GMT
I heard that some Amish don't use electricity, so they would use computers less. I don't know if it's true.
Clark   Friday, July 25, 2003, 05:21 GMT
I eluded to my my last post that there were many different Amish sects. Some of these sects like the Old Order Amish do not use any electricity or modern (19th and up) technology. There are a lot of different religious groups associated with speaking PA German, and there are some people in Ohio who are not affiliated with the Amish who speak PA German today (though they have some Swiss influences in their speech).

I will try to find out some more information.