Jamie On   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 19:09 GMT
My point was just, there is no one Arab look, especially with Egyptians who aren't even Arabs anyway.
J   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 19:31 GMT
ยก Por supuesto !

Some Arabs are extremly white, some others, very dark. They can have blue eyes, green or dark. Although their hair is often dark, it can be also red or slightly red...

This is not a comprehensive list.

Human characters and features are randomly selected in more than a billion possibilities. The Arabs don't espape this universal rule simply because... their are humans!
Clark   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 22:50 GMT
Tremmert, yeah, I know. I always mix up my PA German and Afrikaans.

But seriously Tremmert, what do Coloureds look like? Could you tell a person who walks past you that he/she is a Coloured?

I am prorbably making someone annoyed, but I would really like to find out.
Rugger   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 22:52 GMT
I thought that Cape Malay people are descendents of Malaysian muslims, so wouldn't their appearance be closer to Malaysian (south east asian) than actually middle eastern?

I found the following information on a site about Cape Malay history:

Looking back in history, the colonization of Africa and Asia by European powers from the fifteenth tonineteenth centuries led to the enslavement of millions of Afro-Asian peoples, and an international slave trade. This slave trade led to the involuntary migration of large numbers of Africans and Asians to different parts of the world.

It was one such stream of people, most of whom were political exiles or prisoners who had opposed the colonization of their countries, that came to the Cape of Good Hope (now the city of Cape Town). The first such migrants began to arrive in the latter half of the seventeenth century, mainly from colonies occupied by the Dutch and the British.

The large majority of these migrants that came to the Cape of Good Hope were Muslims, who were captured and sent into exile from colonies such as Ceylon, Madagascar, India and the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia as we know it today).

The origins of this migration can be traced to early in the sixteenth century when, at the end of Indonesia's Majapahit Kingdom, European military penetration and anti-Islamic persecution caused resistance. The dutch crushed that resistance and exiled many opponents to the Cape of Good Hope in southern Africa, which was also occupied by the Dutch.

The Dutch therefore required labour and utilised the opportunity to import political exiles from the East Indies as slaves. Many of these people were skilled artisans, such as silversmiths, masons, milliners, cobblers, singers and tailors. They came to be known collectively as Cape Malay, since despite their diverse origins as far afield as East Africa and Malaysia, and they all spoke the "traders' lingua franca"- Malay.
Rugger   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 23:38 GMT
Clark, here's a site with pictures of "coloured" people (small pictures at the bottom of the page).


Note that "coloured" in South Africa refers to a person of mixed race (native African + European, native African + Asian) or of Asian origin (Indian, Malay). Basically this catagory is for anyone who is not pure native African or pure European, whose skin tone is generally somewhere between "white" and very dark.
Jim   Thursday, October 02, 2003, 23:56 GMT
I looked at your site Rugger and noticed that Lebo, who they say would be considered "black" in South Africa, looks no darker than Lance or Marvina, who they say would be considered "coloured" in South Africa. Perhaps it's just how the pictures are coming out but to me Lance and Lebo look about as dark as each other but Marvina is the one who looks darker. In fact Lebo looks a bit yellowish.

Interesting, hey, how in Canada and the USA they use "East Indian" verses "Indian" where as in Australia and New Zealand we use "Indian" verses "American Indian" ... then in South Africa would they all be "coloured".
A.S.C.M.   Friday, October 03, 2003, 00:05 GMT
I thought "Indian" for actual Indians and "American Indians" for Native Ameriacans were standard terminology internationally.
Rugger   Friday, October 03, 2003, 00:33 GMT
Yeah Jim, it's probably the picture quality that makes Lebo, Lance and Marvina look like having similar skin tone. The variation in skin tone might only be slight and therefore not clearly noticable in the photos.
Californian   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:00 GMT
I say Indian for people fom India and Native American for an indigenous person of the U.S.
Jay   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:36 GMT
Some Canadians use "First Nation(s)", which, I dunno, isn't that slightly patronizing?
Jim   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:42 GMT

That's what I though.
Clark   Friday, October 03, 2003, 01:58 GMT
I have also read in an American text book published in 2000, that Canadians refer to Native Americans/American Indians/Indians as "Aboriginal People [of the Americas]."

I just call them Native Americans. And I hate it when I will be talking to people in a conversation and someone will mention "Indians." Someone always has to clarify if they mean "Indians from India" or "Native Americans."

Stupid Columbus making things hard on us ;-P
Clark   Friday, October 03, 2003, 05:31 GMT
What is the latest on Mugabe? We hardly ever hear anything about that part of the world.

Does anyone know about how the white people got up into those African countries? I mean, did they go there for political reasons, farming was better, or just they went there first after leaving Europe? I know that there were the British in Zimbabwe (former Rhodesia), and then there are the Afrikaners in Nambia; are there any other whites in the countries directly north of South Africa? Like Botswana, Mozambique, etc?
Jamie On   Friday, October 03, 2003, 09:09 GMT
There are still white people in Zimbabwe.
Lou   Friday, October 03, 2003, 09:48 GMT
Clark, I think Rugger's info. is pretty comprehensive, so your question should be answered by now. I hope you can visit SA one day, you'll love it. By the way I do speak German, albeit not perfectly. I've had to learn the dialect too, because the people in Switzerland speak dialect at home and German at school, so for many of them, speaking German isn't comfortable.

Tremmert, I see your point about not taking Zulu for matric if there is no possibility to learn it for a longer period. If you really want to speak it, there are courses outside school, but maybe that has to wait for later. The next best thing, just for speaking, is to find someone who speaks the language and learn it that way.

Cj, nice to meet you. You were just trying to give an explanation, and it was a pity that you were jumped on. Stay with us.

Greetings to all