posh American English

nicolas   Thursday, February 12, 2004, 12:36 GMT
correction :

"At least, it's just a detail but the accent from Auvergne is not """only""" "sh"
Jordi   Thursday, February 12, 2004, 16:59 GMT
I'm enjoying this discussion with Nico and Lavoisel. I feel some sort of new pride is arising in the south --especially in Marseille and perhaps Toulouse-- and maybe this could be a change regarding respect towards regional accents and cultures.
As far as Spain is concerned, although the central Valladolid accent has tried to take the place of what you would call an "upper class social accent" this has been impossible. National languages are very much alive in Spain (Catalan Countries, Basque Countries, Galicia) and the southern accents (Murcian, Andalusian, Extremadura) are very lively. I would say more, many are proud to speak with their regional accents and wouldn't dream of having their children speaking with the language or accent of another region. Although university students will tend to speak Standard Spanish that doesn't particularly affect accents. Highly educated men from the south tend to speak naturally with a southern accent and the Catalan speak Spanish with a Catalan accent. It is absolutely normal to speak with a regional accent in national politics. Nevertheless, the accent is never thought to be the main factor regarding somebody's educational background. Educated people are expected to speak a Standard language but not so much to change their accent. Obviously, I agree there are differences within the same regions.
Lavoisel   Friday, February 13, 2004, 09:53 GMT
What about the success of southern bands like I AM or ZEBDA? I don't think the French see in them the representation of the stereotypical southerners whose voices "chantent le soleil" (sing the sun), but rather the expression of the southern pride. These bands are not the kind of nice little smooth consensual singer you ought to be if you want to be widely broadcasted by Universal Music. They are those who like to throw as much paving stones in the pond as they can and who, what is more, do it with a southern accent.
We could go on about the case of MASSILIA SOUNDSYSTEM whose half the songs are in Occitan and meet a clear success in Marseille and Montpellier...
They are just musical bands, all right, but I think they can make a difference at their own level.
What is your thought?
nicolas   Friday, February 13, 2004, 11:20 GMT
I leave sin 10 years in Paris but i never forgot i am from the south and i hope a day it will be possible for me to go back in the south, not especially where i am from but in the south definitely.

For many years the power has been only assumed by Paris which had for consequences many hate from people in the south (not only the midi), if you have for example Lyon, they really do not like parisians (not all of course). Now there's has been an evolution and the "province" seem to have a little bet more independance. I think these appeared at this time and tend to explain to politicians the difficulties people can have in the south (especially racism, some people in the south do not hesitate to say they are, i remember one of my cousin from Nîmes and some other members of my family who really are). All these music bands work against that fact.
correction   Friday, February 13, 2004, 11:22 GMT
these "bands" appeared
Jordi   Friday, February 13, 2004, 19:13 GMT
I was thinking of Massilia Soundsystem and I meet more and more teenagers and young adults who are learning Occitan and feel real pride regarding their culture. About racism in France --I remember a racist taxi driver from Orly to my hotel who tried to convince me the problems of France were the Arabs; he was pied-noir-- it's more a question of rightist jacobinism moving unsatisfied masses than regional pride. I haven't met occitanists who are racists and Lepen doesn't like them at all. Nicolas, tu as raison et il faut rentrer à Nîmes ou dans la région... Paris c'est pas pour nous...
Lavoisel   Saturday, February 14, 2004, 15:32 GMT
I agree. People who firmly know their own culture are often more curious about the other ones. I have noted this several times. However I am sure some exceptions exist, as always.
The fact that Le Pen and his henchmen dislike these bands is not surprising because they often tried and offered them to perform at the Front National's rallies, but the "brain-washed agitators in the socialo-comunists' pay" declined the invitation.
Two visions of what the "pride" is are confronted, and they are antinomic.
Lavoisel   Saturday, February 14, 2004, 16:30 GMT
*what "pride" is
Jordi   Saturday, February 14, 2004, 16:50 GMT
Pride can always be a virtue if it doesn't make you think you are better than the rest of human beings. Perhaps more than pride I should have spoken of self-respect and dignity. People like Lepen are always looking at their own navel and can't see behind or ahead.
Blah   Sunday, February 15, 2004, 16:35 GMT
Someone asked what 'Posh' means.

I remember my history teacher telling my class that it comes from 'Port Over, Starboard Home' and is from the days when people travelled by ship between England and India.

The wealthiest people would book tickets so that they could go there on the portside and return on the starboard so they could have the shady (or sunny?) side of the ship for the entire journey
nicolas   Monday, February 16, 2004, 11:04 GMT
Breing pride is to ask respect to the others about your culture and in the same time being respectuous of the others. I am pride about what i am and where i am from. My culture is the one i understand the best. It doesn't mean as Jordi said that we are racist with the others. That's the opposite, i like to meet some other people with differnet kind of views

Sure Jordi, Paris n'est pas pour moi!
Hythloday   Monday, February 16, 2004, 11:38 GMT
Re: "Breing pride is to ask respect to the others about your culture and in the same time being respectuous of the others. I am pride about what i am and where i am from. My culture is the one i understand the best. It doesn't mean as Jordi said that we are racist with the others. That's the opposite, i like to meet some other people with differnet kind of views."

Dear, dear, Nicolas - your command of the English language is virtually non-existent. My offer to educate you still stands. I charge very competitive rates, but I think that you will have to start off in my elementary group.
n to Hythloday   Monday, February 16, 2004, 12:15 GMT
1 No thank you i don't need you to teach me "Mein kampf"
2 Elementary group, you need it most tham myself. An english who does not know who's Chamberlious is a serious case to study.
3 I thought you were dead like your grand father
nicolas to hythoday   Monday, February 16, 2004, 12:27 GMT
by chamberlious you must understand Chamberlain.

You are so igonrant i didn't think you were able to find who i was talking about. I am sure between all the british who visit the site, you are the only one to not know him.

At least, if you want to correct my english, that's great. But i am sorry to not correct your french (remember your funny things, did you really think it was french?). In fact, it was impossible because it did not mean anything. So there was nothing to correct. Long life to you Hythloday, an english lecturor. Who the else know who you really are.
To be an english lecturor is a good thing, i am sincere! I have observed, smaller is the guy, superior he thinks he is. You are nothing in the world Hythloday. There are many people in that site who are really interesting and are not english lecturor. They have something you don't have which make you feel inferior. The thing i have, you don't have. Guess what?
Hythloday   Monday, February 16, 2004, 15:53 GMT
I know of both Neville Chamberlain and Joseph Chamberlain, his father. Joseph Chamberlain's house, Highbury, is a stone's throw from mine and I have visited it many times, so I don't think you can claim that I don't know who 'Chamberlain' is, you complete twat.

The thing i have, you don't have. Guess what?

I don't have to guess - it's a brain the size of a pea.

Your inane posts are the verbal equivalent of diarrhoea. Please learn our language before you attempt to communicate with us again.