Are you offended by this passage?

Juan   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 11:26 GMT
I'm a huge Barcelona fan. Especially because of the Dutch connection over the years beginning with Johan Cruyyf (were there any Dutch footballers before him?) and to today's modern Dutch greats such as Edgar Davids that have recently arrived along with other Dutch internationals already present at the club.

>>As far as football or soccer goes, giant clubs never fall they just stumble.<<

Yeah, ok? It's a pretty big stumble woulnd't you say? Personally I would classify that as a fall, not being in the Champions League and all.

Barcelona plays exciting, beautiful, creative, Brazilian-like football for a European club. Which, unfortunately has been its downfall by letting in too many goals. Their defence has alway being a bit "suss" at the best of times. But at least it doesn't follow the philosophy of Italian football. I despise Italian football. I wish FIFA would introduce rules to prohibit Catenaccio tactics. When you play a sport you should play to WIN, unlike Italian football where they play NOT TO LOSE. Bloody cowards, grow a backbone why don't ya. Go Barca! I'm a big fan of Chelsea, (perhaps Arsenal aswell) and Ajax Amsterdam too, I always liked their TOTAL FOOTBALL philosophy.

ANY MORE FOOTBALL (soccer to the uninitiated) FANS OUT THERE???
giani almateo   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 11:37 GMT
italian football is the best
Juan   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 11:42 GMT
NO, Italian football is the pits. Italy would do the whole world a big favour if it removed its brand of football off the face of the Earth never to be seen or heard of ever again.
giani almateo di Torino   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 11:56 GMT
I don't think italians and french are the best soccers all over the world. Of course Spain is good but not like these 2 countries. Viva il total Calcio!!!
giani di Torino   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 12:01 GMT
Me scusa!

It is : ""I don't think"," italians etc""

and not : "I don't think italians etc"
Juan   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 12:03 GMT

This guy has got the right idea and knows what he is talking about

>>It was Italy that provided the most fertile soil for the growth of defensive tactics. The Italians had perfected a system that used the deep-lying fullback seen in Switzerland's 1950 verrou formation. Catenaccio, literally meaning a great big chain, was the name the Italians gave to their system.

A chain of defenders, that is, designed to strangle the opposing offense. Three of the fullbacks were given strict man-to-man marking duties. Behind them was the deep fullback-the Italians called him the libero, or free man, because he had no specific opponent to mark. His job was to patrol the entire center of the defense and to quickly close any gaps that might be opened by other defender's errors.

The history of catenaccio tells much about the development of soccer tactics. There was absolutely nothing positive about its origin...<<

"There was no denying the success, in terms of results, that catenaccio brought. It did make it very difficult for the opponents to score, and there was always the possibility that the defending team, breaking away suddenly, might snatch a goal. It happened far too many times for it to be accidental.

Eventually catenaccio became more than a style of play. It became a mentality that dragged Italian soccer down through boring negativity to almost total sterility. For, inevitably, the big clubs joined in..."

"When two so-so teams met and both employed catenaccio, both packing their penalty areas and hoping to snatch a sudden goal at the other end, then the game degenerated into a colossal bore."

Enough said.
dfdfdf   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 12:06 GMT
giani almateo   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 12:10 GMT
Who won the world cup in 1998? French!

Who won many other world cups? Brazil!

Who won many others? Italia!

Italia e la Francia are the best, you can't deny the fact. Spanish are good but the best style is the italian and french one. Portugal is good to.
***   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 14:30 GMT
Giani, mi spiace, ma non si dice mai "me scusa".
Tu sarai un torinese falso. Un tipo che si spaccia per un'italiano solo per darsi un sacco di arie e basta.
giani a ***   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 15:07 GMT
No you don't because it does not mean the same thing. If you want to teach me italian, so just learn it and foind yourself what it means. Me scusa non tiene il tempo a perdere. Ciao
fgsg   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 15:08 GMT
"ma non si dice mai "me scusa" = non sense
Jordi   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 17:23 GMT
As far as Catalan on French territory is concerned the border line is the town of Salses to the north of Perpinyà (Perpignan). It includes the old Catalan counties of: La Cerdanya, el Rosselló and El Capcir. There is one small town or enclave, known as Llívia, surrounded by French Catalan territory, which still belongs to Catalonia and, therefore, to the Spanish state. Few French people know this and you can look that up. Obviously, it's the town in the area where everybody still speaks Catalan since the language hasn't known the same ill fate and persecution as other native languages on French soil. The Spaniards have been trying to imitate the French for the past three centuries but resistance on this side of the border is very active. Over 100.000 people still speak Catalan in that corner of Catalonia under French rule since 1659 and although the French government doesn't seem to be too happy about it, it is making a great comeback among families and children who feel much nearer to Barcelona than Paris. If you're interested in the languages of France please look up languesdefrance in the Internet.
Nicolas regarding why some Frenchmen or Spaniards feel disturbed when they hear people born in France or Spain who don't speak French or Spanish at home or among themselves I can only say: "I ask myself the same question." I stress I said "some" and not "all" although I would say "many". All Catalan speakers know what I'm talking about and maybe our Occitan friend, Guilhem can tell you what I'm talking about. Some think that if you're Spanish you should speak Spanish... If you're French you should speak French... Well, 70% of the population of the Catalan Countries, all the way from Salses to Guardamar to the south of Valencia and Alacant, speak Catalan at home and I wouldn't recommend a medium sized Catalan speaking town if you came to Spain to learn Spanish in the streets and pubs.
And a message to Guilhem, an Occitan speaker, a language so close to Catalan for so many reasons. The words are in Catalan but I'm sure he will easily understand them since our languages are like twin sisters:
"Guilhem, mon fill també es diu Guillem, com tu, a la catalana és clar, un nom de trobador que ha donat tant de paratge i d'honor mitjançant els nostres trobadors i una civilització universal. Coratge amic meu i amb l'esguard sempre davant nostre."
Jordi   Thursday, February 05, 2004, 18:47 GMT
As far as football goes. Countries with Great city clubs (Barcelona, Madrid, Bilbao, Valencia or others) and the best league don't necessarily win World Cups. Every football player in the world dreams to play in the Spanish league where we pay the best wages because we have the hugest crowds. I know towns of 200.000 inhabitants that can seat over 50.000 for a Sunday match in a top first-class field. At the end of their carrer we even send Spanish players to play in the French, Italian or English league. Think in Beckham or Zidane, for instance. Who can pay them best? And, after all, Italy won the cup in 1982 in Spain because we, the peoples of Spain, love our cousins the Italians, of course. We were, after all, your 12th player.
Guilhem   Friday, February 06, 2004, 08:44 GMT
Jordi, Ai comprat perfechament que as escrich, mon amic. I am familiar with Guillem/Guilhem lo trobador. My grandmother explained to me that my grandfather would write to her verses of the troubadours when they were courting. So they named my father Guilhem, a name that he then passed to me. Un bèl cònte, segur!

"If you're French you should speak French..."

Sadly this so true. There are still many meridionels who speak occitan at home but are embarrassed to speak it in public because of this français pour la france sentiment. Unlike the Catalans who take pride in their language in face of Castilian domination, the Occitans believe the propaganda that they are told by les Franchimands and shun the occitan language. Please do not get me wrong, there are many things I love about France, but our culture in the south is very different from Ile de France and we should be allowed to celebrate this difference without being made to feel like we are inferiors.

"Coratge amic meu i amb l'esguard sempre davant nostre."

You make me feel like singing "Copa Santa", mon fraire catalan:

"Pèr la glòria dau terraire
Vautres enfin que siatz consènts,
Catalans de luenh, ò fraires,
Comuniem tóteis ensèms!"

(Wow how far we've gone from the original topic!)
nicolas   Friday, February 06, 2004, 09:09 GMT
Jordi, this is does not seem to be difficult to understand :
"Guilhem, mon fill també es diu Guillem, com tu, a la catalana és clar, un nom de trobador que ha donat tant de paratge i d'honor mitjançant els nostres trobadors i una civilització universal. Coratge amic meu i amb l'esguard sempre davant nostre."

All my familly are from south occitany (villages in the north and Nîmes). Nîmes is very spanish, i think you have heard about it. I know my origins but i don't speak occitan, i can understand a few occitan. I am not talking about the spanish side because i don't know their history. I have nothing of course against people who are interested about heir origins and want to learn their ancestors's language (i would like to do it). I just don't like (i don't say you are one of them) the political way some people use with the language which becomes sometimes dangerous. What i want to mean is; some guys like Lepen use that way. No one must use his language for that, i think it's a bad way which could divided people from a same country. When you know how many rivalities there has been in France and how many work has been made by some politicians to make peace between vendéens, bretons, normands, flammands français, auvergnats, bourguignos, provençaux, gascons, savoyards etc etc it's not necessary to destroy all that peace and stability.