Foreigners in England/France

Axel   Friday, April 30, 2004, 07:52 GMT
Hi Anthony,
I am 24, and it is getting worse day after day!
Where in China are you from? Do you speak a bit French? If not don't be afraid as English and French share a lot of their vocabulary.
I really feel concern about China now: my cousin and his girlfriend are moving soon to Shanghaï in order to work for a French company, and of course I guess I will make a trip there and learn a lot of Chinese!
anthony   Monday, May 03, 2004, 23:20 GMT
Hi Axel
whats happing
I just move to Taipei in Taiwan. I do not speak much French. What is getting worse day after day and why do you feel a concern for China right now. Is Lyon in France a big city.
Axel   Tuesday, May 04, 2004, 08:45 GMT
Yes Lyon is the third main city in France! There are about 1,300,000 inhabitants in that city. It is just like a mini Paris, in fact, with a very beautiful architecture. The suburb is a bit sad, but there are a lot of things to do in the region (you can go skiing or hill-walking in the Alpes, the Jura looks like Canada -a lot of lakes with very huge fir forests-, the Beaujolais is quite beautiful etc). Here is the website of Lyon (in English):
What is getting worse day after day? Well I am going older day after day, that is what I meant!
okota to anthony   Tuesday, May 04, 2004, 10:45 GMT
i am 42 .Did you find difficult to learn english?
anthony   Thursday, May 06, 2004, 02:24 GMT
Okota and Axel

English was easy to learn because my dad grew up in America and then he moved back to China. He taught me everything pretty much. I hear skating is big in France. Is there a place called La Dome in Paris.

sorry about all these questions abotu france I am just very fasinated abotu this country. I really enjoy talking wtih you Axel thank you for answering my questions. Lyon seems really cool
Medi   Thursday, May 06, 2004, 07:14 GMT

why are you fascinated about france?
Christan   Saturday, May 15, 2004, 01:10 GMT
There is racism towards Algerians and Black people in France? Is this true what you guys said earlier in this forum about racism towards Algerians and blacks in France. I am asking this because I might want to mvoe to France but I am Algerians
okota   Saturday, May 15, 2004, 10:45 GMT
yes guy it's true.There's a lot of xenophobia against maghrebins and africans because most young people of african and arab origins are delinquent, they're thieves, they rape, they kill and some of them put bombs in the subway.I don't exagerate, i simply transcribe what ordinary french people say every day.Believe in my own experience: one year ago, i was coming home and four arab guys attacked me only to steal my cellular phone.Another day arab people attacked a friend of mine because he's jew.

Frankly, i am japanese.Most of the foreigners (chinese, japanese, latin-americans, armenians, russian,etc...) are welcome but the blacks and the arabs not.Moreover some arab groups want to impone the islamic hidjab for their girls in the public schools (ans this goes against the laicity of the french state) so it's worse than ever.People will see you with hate in the eyes.Most of the french want to expulse the blacks and the arabs.Its sad but true.
Lavoisel   Saturday, May 15, 2004, 12:21 GMT
Okota, I am sorry but I am under no impression that I have "hate in my eyes" when I see a French from Maghrebi, Kabyle or any other African origins. Fifteen percent of the people who vote vote regularily for Le Pen. But only 50% of the people who can vote do it. That is to say that 7.5 % of the French population are racist or think that voting for the extremists will wake the other parties up. Most of your affirmations are exagerations that are a result of the lies claimed by Le Pen or the other politicians who handle fear as a political programme or are generalisations deducted from your own experience.

"Most young people of african and arab origins are delinquent"

Really, then, given that most of the inhabitants of the poor suburb are from either of the two origins that you are accusing, I have to conclude that this type of area are mostly populated by delinquents. Please provided us statistics on the crime rate in the French "banlieues" so that we can check your assertion that they are "mostly" delinquants. But I know they will not confirm what you say.

"They rape".

Now, this is an objective affirmation! During this decade there has been about ten cases of rape in those suburbs and it scandalised the whole French population, including, yes, including the Maghrebis and the Black people. Let me congratulate you on your capability of puttting your affirmations in context! Bravo!
Let's all hide in our home, close all doors and keep the women at home, we are surrounded by three million of muslim rapists! Okota told me so, so it has to be true! Aah! I'm shivering!
Saying so is overlooking the fact that most of the rapes are perpetrated by so-called "native" French.

"They kill"

Oh, no! So we are also surrounded by three million of murderers, there is no escape, there are so many "banlieues" in France, there are everywhere, there are so numerous that we will quickly all breathe our last. Mama, help me! Oh, no they are knocking at my door! Goodbye farewell!

More seriously, Okota, I have been attacked by three French from Maghrebi origin myself once, and I haven't deducted of that experience that they are all thieves, rapists, murderers and integrist muslims. Most of the French I know are not racist and the French of African origin I know are very nice. Marroco is one of the favourite destination of the French tourists. One of the most peculiar thing about Maghreb is that it is know and unknown to France at the same time. That is because we share one hundred years of colonial history. The culture of the "pied-noirs" (the French colonists who lived in Algeria before its independence) is mostly Maghrebi and the culture of the French of Maghrebi origin is mostly French. One of the French's favourite dish is the Couscous, an Algerian speciality.

Thus, I'd say that my average countryman hates the people who look like delinquents. Skin colour is rarely a factor. A French of Maghrebi origin who speak like an educated person is not going to be prejudiced. However, certain firms were believed to employ only white people, and were sentenced to pay a fine because of this. There are a lot of associations that fight against that sort of prejudices, but of course, Rome was not built in one day.
okota   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 09:19 GMT
I'm very far of your idealistic portrait of french society.
May I know where are you living?
Lavoisel   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 10:25 GMT
Just some statistics for you: in the area of Saint Denis, where the criminality is supposed to be extremly high and where a lot of inhabitants are from African origins, there were 69.5 delicts for 1000 inhabitants in 2003. This means that 930.5 out of 1000 inhabitants did not commit anything in 2003.

"I'm very far of your idealistic portrait of french society."

I am under no impression that my portrait was "idealistic". However when you say "most" I answer "generalisation" and when you say that you "simply transcribe what ordinary french people say every day" I answer that I have meet ten French racists in my whole life and that the votes seem to prove that only 7.5% of the French are racist. That's as simple as that.

"May I know where are you living?"

I live in Valence, if that helps.
Lavoisel   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 10:28 GMT
"Delicts" is not a word. I meant "violation of common law".
okota   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 11:06 GMT
for what i know of france, valence is veeeeeeery different from paris suburbs.It's like comparing New-York with a small town of North Dakota or Nebraska.I know many asian and latin immigrants who tell me they've got a lot of troubles with the arabs.Let's face reality.
Lavoisel   Sunday, May 16, 2004, 13:42 GMT
Okota, I'm not discussing the fact that you know Paris better than I do.
But given that I have lived in cities in wich a lot of immigrants live like Montpellier and Grenoble, and that Valence has it share of migrants itself, I think I have met enough French from Maghrebi origins in my life to affirm that to say "most young people of african and arab origins are delinquent, they're thieves, they rape, they kill and some of them put bombs in the subway" is a blatant generalisation, which is, I remind you, the only "reality" I am discussing here.

Now, I think we both have made our opinion very clear and that there is no need for continuing this discussion. We have already been too far in the field of politics while this forum is about languages. I am therefore done with this thread.

Au revoir, et n'oublies pas que la seule chose qui peut vraiment gâcher une vie c'est de vivre dans la peur.
nic   Monday, May 17, 2004, 14:28 GMT

There's one thing which is true, you are RACIST!!! I am french and i am not racist against any black or algerian people. I don't think like you seem to do, that algerians are especially thieves, violent or bullshit like that.
I grew up in Lyon in a popular place with many algerians and black and did not have any problems with these people.

At least i live in Paris since 10 years and acan assure people that Paris is safer than Marseille, Lyon or Lille.

I don't think there is more to say, Lavoisel did it very well